Hardwick Select Board Budgetary and Administrative Oversight Meeting

[00:00:00] visitors
[00:00:02] comments.
[00:00:03] Any
[00:00:04] >> Are we being recorded like usual today?
[00:00:06] >> Yes, we are.
[00:00:07] >> Thank you.
[00:00:09] >> Is that it?
[00:00:10] >> That's it for a moment.
[00:00:11] >> Okay. Anybody else?
[00:00:16] >> All right.
[00:00:17] >> I will I will do something.
[00:00:18] >> Oh, you will.
[00:00:18] >> I just wanted to ask um this uh townwide
[00:00:23] sort of permitting process that Justine
[00:00:24] had said we were in for. I wanted to ask
[00:00:27] about that. got recently planning board
[00:00:29] and other boards and department heads
[00:00:30] got notice from our treasurer Alyssa
[00:00:33] about accounts in a rears in taxes in
[00:00:37] town and that's important because boards
[00:00:40] are expected to pull back on a permit
[00:00:44] approval for those in a rears for taxes
[00:00:48] or penalties or whatever. So, it's
[00:00:50] useful to get that information. And I
[00:00:52] know that we're aiming toward having
[00:00:56] uh an application visible to all the
[00:00:58] different boards and such so that all
[00:01:00] this can be coordinated and expedited.
[00:01:02] I'm wondering where we are on that
[00:01:05] process.
[00:01:07] >> So, as you know, we got a grant for the
[00:01:09] first year of that. Um we are just
[00:01:11] waiting for the funds to be deposited
[00:01:13] into our account. So um but they should
[00:01:16] be any any day now for the online pering
[00:01:20] >> and then we'll start the process
[00:01:21] >> and and how will that run?
[00:01:24] >> So it's the way it's worked you know
[00:01:26] when I was in Milbury we had online
[00:01:28] permitting and I think where actually
[00:01:30] implemented it as well. Um it's just a
[00:01:32] way for all the departments to talk to
[00:01:34] each other. Like for example let's just
[00:01:35] say I'm applying for a permit and I am
[00:01:38] behind on my taxes. Well the first stop
[00:01:40] is the treasur's office in that online
[00:01:42] system. So, she'll check off either yes
[00:01:44] or no. Then it'll move on to the, you
[00:01:46] know, the planning board or whatever
[00:01:47] permit I'm I'm going for. Um, and then
[00:01:50] the applicant will be able to see
[00:01:52] everything and then we'll be able to see
[00:01:53] everything and track everything.
[00:01:57] >> That answer your question, Bill?
[00:01:58] >> Yes. Thank you. That's helpful.
[00:02:01] >> Any other visitor comments?
[00:02:05] >> All right, we'll move on. Uh, approval
[00:02:08] of meeting minutes. Now, the first one
[00:02:11] is November 24th. That's the one that
[00:02:13] you requested we uh revisit that.
[00:02:16] >> Yes, cuz it says amended on the website,
[00:02:19] Mr. Chair, and the amendments are not
[00:02:21] put into these meeting minutes. We had
[00:02:24] an executive session. We had two
[00:02:25] executive sessions that night.
[00:02:26] >> That night. Yes.
[00:02:27] >> And the meeting started at 5:00, not
[00:02:30] 6:30.
[00:02:32] And we voted to go into executive
[00:02:34] sessions.
[00:02:35] I recused myself.
[00:02:38] I left the building. Came back at 6:00
[00:02:41] p.m. You had another executive session
[00:02:44] to go into. I recused myself again. Left
[00:02:47] the building, came back at 6:30
[00:02:51] and there was no the chair had left the
[00:02:53] building.
[00:02:54] >> Yes.
[00:02:55] >> And we continued with the meeting and
[00:02:58] none of that is documented on his
[00:03:02] >> All right.
[00:03:05] So, uh, do you have the specific
[00:03:11] you have it written down there?
[00:03:13] >> No, I don't have it written down.
[00:03:15] >> Okay.
[00:03:15] >> I mean, we said this at a previous
[00:03:17] meeting as well that it needed to be
[00:03:19] amended.
[00:03:21] >> So, the spelling and stuff changes were
[00:03:23] amended, but you weren't just so I have
[00:03:26] it understood.
[00:03:27] >> Well, the it was you and you and Jeff at
[00:03:30] that point for the regular meeting,
[00:03:32] >> right? But the open meeting started with
[00:03:35] Mr. Volheim here at 5:00 pm.
[00:03:37] >> It started at 5:00 PM and then we went
[00:03:40] right into executive session.
[00:03:44] >> Correct. That first one was for an hour
[00:03:47] and then when I returned
[00:03:50] >> um
[00:03:50] >> 6 p.m. we went into a second and I
[00:03:53] recuse myself from that as well.
[00:03:55] >> And that should all be in the record
[00:03:57] that I recuse myself.
[00:04:00] >> Yes.
[00:04:00] >> Yes. And then it also should be in here
[00:04:02] when I returned at like 6:25. The chair
[00:04:06] had had left the building previously and
[00:04:09] he not it wasn't returned to open
[00:04:11] session.
[00:04:13] >> I
[00:04:15] but and I just took over cuz I found out
[00:04:17] at 6:25.
[00:04:18] >> I believe we did reopen at
[00:04:21] >> Yeah. 6:30.
[00:04:22] >> At 6:30,
[00:04:23] >> right?
[00:04:24] >> But Eric left soon after that. You
[00:04:28] >> not soon after. He had left before that.
[00:04:30] He left before you came in.
[00:04:33] >> Yes.
[00:04:34] >> But we had reopened the meeting, I
[00:04:36] believe.
[00:04:37] >> Well, I wasn't here for that. So, and
[00:04:39] it's not noted. So, it should be noted
[00:04:41] for the record
[00:04:41] >> that reopened at 6:30 and
[00:04:47] Eric wasn't here for that.
[00:04:49] >> Correct.
[00:04:50] >> Cuz you walked in and I was by myself.
[00:04:53] >> Yeah, I remember that. You remember
[00:04:55] that?
[00:04:56] >> Was beginning to wonder if you were
[00:04:57] going to show up.
[00:04:58] >> That would have been a problem though,
[00:04:59] wouldn't it? Yeah.
[00:05:02] >> Okay.
[00:05:02] >> So, yeah. So, we'll revisit those.
[00:05:05] >> Yeah.
[00:05:06] >> Okay.
[00:05:07] >> Thank you.
[00:05:12] >> All right.
[00:05:15] Next is April 13th meeting minutes.
[00:05:23] So, Mr. Mr. Chair, the only amendment I
[00:05:25] would add to this is we did a vote to go
[00:05:29] into executive session.
[00:05:30] >> Mhm.
[00:05:31] >> And then we also, you know, we had the
[00:05:34] vote in executive session to return to
[00:05:36] open session.
[00:05:38] Um, so you say we return, you have to
[00:05:41] add the vote, a roll call vote that we
[00:05:43] went in to executive session and then at
[00:05:46] the end that we return to open session.
[00:05:48] That would be the only amendment I have.
[00:05:51] Well, it said open session was called to
[00:05:53] order at 6:30,
[00:05:57] >> but there was a vote involved with it.
[00:05:59] >> Mhm.
[00:06:00] >> The vote before you enter the executive
[00:06:03] session at 6:00,
[00:06:06] >> I don't see anything wrong with the way
[00:06:08] it's worded here,
[00:06:09] >> except there's no roll call vote in the
[00:06:12] record. We took a roll call vote in the
[00:06:14] public to go into executive session. And
[00:06:17] the reason why we went into executive
[00:06:18] session,
[00:06:19] >> well, the reason is already here,
[00:06:20] >> right? So, we just need to amend the
[00:06:23] roll call vote.
[00:06:24] >> Roll call vote. And in both cases, it
[00:06:27] was a unanimous vote. So,
[00:06:29] >> Right. But it's easy. Yes.
[00:06:32] >> And I'll make a motion to approve these
[00:06:34] meetings of April 13, 2026 with the
[00:06:38] amended
[00:06:39] language added to it.
[00:06:41] >> Okay. I'll second that.
[00:06:44] >> Okay.
[00:06:44] >> All in favor? I
[00:06:46] >> I stand.
[00:06:54] All right.
[00:07:01] Um, staying on the topic of meeting
[00:07:04] minutes, we still have some outstanding
[00:07:06] minutes. I think you've been keeping
[00:07:07] track of them, Bill.
[00:07:09] >> Um, for the most part I have.
[00:07:12] >> Okay.
[00:07:13] like I can't like give you an exact
[00:07:17] thing right here, right?
[00:07:18] >> No, no, I don't expect it, but I just
[00:07:20] want to make sure that we still have
[00:07:21] that
[00:07:23] >> somewhat of a priority so that we can
[00:07:25] finish them off eventually here and get
[00:07:27] caught up on
[00:07:28] >> right and that's that's why I asked if
[00:07:31] we could have a discussion be put on the
[00:07:33] agenda for maybe a future item,
[00:07:35] >> right,
[00:07:35] >> to resolve these meeting minutes.
[00:07:37] >> It's on the next it's on the next
[00:07:39] agenda, Bill.
[00:07:40] >> Okay. All right. So I can bring an
[00:07:43] updated status of all the minutes and
[00:07:44] then be free.
[00:07:45] >> Okay.
[00:07:46] >> Thank you.
[00:07:47] >> You're welcome.
[00:07:49] >> Next on the agenda, uh one day liquor
[00:07:52] license at the townhouse for Thomas
[00:07:55] Petraia.
[00:07:56] >> Yes. Um so this is a backup. They're
[00:07:59] hoping it's going to be beautiful
[00:08:01] weather and they're going to have the
[00:08:02] wedding at their house, but so the
[00:08:04] townhouse is just a backup in case of
[00:08:06] inclement weather. uh they did uh
[00:08:08] provide the payment and fill out the
[00:08:10] application. Um I think going forward
[00:08:13] what I'm going to do is probably for a
[00:08:14] meeting in June come up with some sort
[00:08:15] of policy for a one day alcohol license,
[00:08:18] but um again this is just a backup um
[00:08:22] just in case it's bad weather and I um
[00:08:25] recommend approval.
[00:08:27] >> Okay. You have any questions gentlemen?
[00:08:31] >> Yeah. The policy should be approved
[00:08:33] through the select board. Isn't that
[00:08:34] sir?
[00:08:35] >> Oh absolutely. That's why I said a
[00:08:36] meeting in June. Okay.
[00:08:37] >> Yeah. Currently, we really don't have a
[00:08:39] policy.
[00:08:40] >> Okay.
[00:08:41] >> So, you know, we've we approve I I think
[00:08:44] the only other time we've had a uh
[00:08:46] short-term liquor or uh uh license or
[00:08:51] whatever is uh for the Hardwick Fair and
[00:08:55] >> we do that every year.
[00:08:56] >> Right.
[00:08:57] >> Right. So,
[00:08:59] >> Okay.
[00:09:00] >> So, that's the only question.
[00:09:02] >> I'm willing to uh entertain a motion.
[00:09:05] I'll make a motion to approve the the
[00:09:08] one day liquor license for the wedding
[00:09:09] at the townhouse. Do
[00:09:11] >> I hear a second?
[00:09:12] >> I'll second it.
[00:09:13] >> Okay. Any further discussion?
[00:09:15] >> Um, quick question. If it's good
[00:09:17] weather, it's at his house and the
[00:09:18] liquor license will be for his house.
[00:09:21] >> We'll have alcohol at your own house.
[00:09:24] >> I didn't know if there was a technical
[00:09:26] thing or too many people. I don't know.
[00:09:28] >> This is just in case I guess
[00:09:30] clarification. That's all.
[00:09:32] >> Okay. Any further discussion? No.
[00:09:35] >> All those in favor? I
[00:09:36] >> I
[00:09:44] >> Next on the agenda is the more
[00:09:47] scholarship
[00:09:49] applicants.
[00:09:51] >> So, we received three applicants. Um, so
[00:09:55] unfortunately, two of them are not
[00:09:58] Harvard residents. So, the second one in
[00:10:00] your packet is the only one that um
[00:10:03] meets the minimum qualifications for the
[00:10:06] scholarship.
[00:10:08] Um,
[00:10:08] >> and this is for
[00:10:10] >> it's for a $500 uh scholarship.
[00:10:13] >> The the person
[00:10:14] >> Oh, I'm so sorry.
[00:10:17] Um, the person is Elizabeth Mat.
[00:10:21] >> Okay.
[00:10:21] >> Yes.
[00:10:25] All
[00:10:33] right.
[00:10:35] Any discussion?
[00:10:37] >> Yes, Mr. Chair.
[00:10:38] >> Yes, Bill.
[00:10:39] >> Um, last year we gave out two
[00:10:41] scholarships.
[00:10:41] >> Yes.
[00:10:42] >> Are we giving out two tonight?
[00:10:44] >> We only have one applicant from Hart.
[00:10:50] Well,
[00:10:54] >> I mean, it's one of the requirements,
[00:10:56] but at the same time, I mean,
[00:10:59] >> are we going to keep it open for other
[00:11:01] applicants to apply for?
[00:11:03] >> I mean, it and you see the letter that I
[00:11:05] sent out, I mean, they it was open for
[00:11:07] about a month,
[00:11:08] >> right?
[00:11:09] >> Um,
[00:11:10] >> but this is like the first, I think,
[00:11:12] public discussion on it. So, maybe
[00:11:14] somebody who's in this town is will
[00:11:17] apply for it in the next week or two.
[00:11:19] The only thing I will let you know is
[00:11:21] sometimes when it gets closer to the end
[00:11:22] of the school year, it's hard because I
[00:11:24] we send it to the school. Like I don't I
[00:11:26] don't send it to
[00:11:28] their home. So if they're not in school,
[00:11:30] then the school has to track them down,
[00:11:31] which we kind of ran into last year. Um
[00:11:35] >> uh then maybe we could leave it open for
[00:11:39] at least until the end of May
[00:11:42] >> if you'd like me like to. I I
[00:11:45] >> When is graduation? Do we know? probably
[00:11:47] June something for
[00:11:48] >> um I'll have to look I send it towin I
[00:11:51] send it to um Eagle Hill homeschool kids
[00:11:55] and then Pathfinder as well so I don't
[00:11:57] know all this off the top of my head
[00:12:02] so
[00:12:04] >> well so it couldn't hurt to just leave
[00:12:06] it open for a week
[00:12:08] I agree with I can see
[00:12:11] >> so uh do we want to award this one
[00:12:13] scholarship first
[00:12:14] >> sure Okay, I'll entertain a motion.
[00:12:18] >> I'll make a motion to award the first
[00:12:21] scholarship to Elizabeth Mat Mat.
[00:12:24] >> I'll second it.
[00:12:25] >> Okay, any further discussion?
[00:12:28] >> All those in favor?
[00:12:29] >> I I those opposed?
[00:12:33] >> All right.
[00:12:41] >> So, we all agree to keep it open for a
[00:12:43] week. I'll entertain a motion to do
[00:12:46] that.
[00:12:46] >> I'll make a motion to keep the
[00:12:48] application process for the scholarships
[00:12:50] open for another week.
[00:12:52] >> I'll second a motion.
[00:12:54] >> Okay. But yes, Bill,
[00:12:56] >> hopefully there's somebody watching uh
[00:12:58] who might take advantage of this last
[00:13:00] opportunity.
[00:13:01] >> Maybe you should just mention the
[00:13:03] requirements that it be somebody a heart
[00:13:05] of resident, male or female, going on to
[00:13:08] college.
[00:13:09] >> High school senior.
[00:13:11] high school senior.
[00:13:14] Um, they would have to submit a 500word
[00:13:18] essay, academic accomplishments, GPA,
[00:13:22] SAT scores,
[00:13:24] uh, com community contribution and
[00:13:27] involvement, and any other relative
[00:13:30] extracurricular activities.
[00:13:34] That's a $500 scholarship
[00:13:38] open to only Hardwick residents.
[00:13:41] Okay. Do do I hear a motion to extend
[00:13:45] it? I I heard that.
[00:13:46] >> Yes. Second and a second. Okay. All
[00:13:49] those in favor? I
[00:13:51] >> Thank you, Bill.
[00:14:02] >> Okay. Discussion and vote on surplus
[00:14:05] vehicles. So, um, this is the police
[00:14:09] cruiser and the 2017 electric vehicle,
[00:14:14] uh, that used to be a prior building
[00:14:16] inspector's vehicle here. Um, I know the
[00:14:18] chief can probably speak to more while
[00:14:20] he's here about the police cruiser, but
[00:14:22] the electric vehicle, you've heard me
[00:14:24] kind of float around. Um [clears throat]
[00:14:25] when we do the gravel, um the highway
[00:14:28] superintendent is nice enough to also um
[00:14:32] advertise the two vehicles on um Options
[00:14:34] International. Um so we'll hopefully get
[00:14:36] some
[00:14:38] get some a little bit of money for both
[00:14:40] those vehicles. Um and in order to do
[00:14:42] that, I'm asking the board to declare
[00:14:43] them both surplus. Chief, is there
[00:14:45] anything you want to add about the
[00:14:46] cruiser?
[00:14:46] >> That is the one that was replaced by
[00:14:48] town meeting in February. So it's the
[00:14:51] 2017 was 135,000 miles on it.
[00:14:55] Okay. So, you're looking for a vote to
[00:14:58] declare those two vehicles as surplus.
[00:15:03] >> Yes. And I just want to add one more
[00:15:04] thing. I did um speak to CMRPC while
[00:15:07] chief and I had them on a call about the
[00:15:09] surplus vehicle. I mean about about the
[00:15:11] electric vehicle being surplus because
[00:15:13] it was purchased through a grant. Um and
[00:15:16] they were fine with it. Um so I just
[00:15:18] want to make sure that I crossed all my
[00:15:20] tees and dotted my eyes.
[00:15:22] >> Um yeah.
[00:15:23] >> Yes. Mr. Chair, question. Um, what type
[00:15:26] of electric vehicle? Is it a Prius? Is
[00:15:29] it What is it?
[00:15:30] >> Yeah.
[00:15:31] >> What is it?
[00:15:32] >> Ford Focus, I think.
[00:15:34] >> It's a Gen One Ford Focus. That was all
[00:15:38] electric.
[00:15:39] >> And it's the one that just sits over
[00:15:40] here.
[00:15:41] >> It's averaging about 30 m to a charge
[00:15:43] right now.
[00:15:44] >> Okay.
[00:15:44] >> So, [laughter]
[00:15:46] the battery is dead. The batteries are
[00:15:47] gone in it.
[00:15:51] Thank you. Okay. Thanks.
[00:15:54] Anything else?
[00:15:55] >> No, that's it.
[00:15:56] >> I'll entertain a motion. 101.
[00:15:58] >> I'll make a motion to make the surplus
[00:16:01] vehicles as
[00:16:04] >> the um Ford electric vehicle and the um
[00:16:08] the police cruiser.
[00:16:09] >> The Ford electric vehicle and the police
[00:16:11] cruiser as surplus.
[00:16:13] >> I'll second the motion.
[00:16:14] >> Okay. Any further discussion? All those
[00:16:17] in favor? I. All those opposed. Okay.
[00:16:20] >> Thank you.
[00:16:23] All right,
[00:16:26] got a list of departments that we want
[00:16:28] to talk to about budgetary issues.
[00:16:31] Going to see if anybody can come up with
[00:16:34] any cuts. We'll start with highway.
[00:16:38] >> So, we as we went through the last
[00:16:42] meeting,
[00:16:44] um you people have seen what I had to
[00:16:46] work with. Mhm.
[00:16:48] >> Actually gave some back because we had
[00:16:51] gotten cut too far from Justin. Back and
[00:16:54] forth it went. And I mean that's
[00:16:57] basically
[00:16:59] >> So that you're essentially saying
[00:17:02] there's nothing more.
[00:17:03] >> We got cut back in 23 that we're just
[00:17:06] getting back to now.
[00:17:08] >> You know, we came in for more and we
[00:17:10] went backwards.
[00:17:11] So, I mean,
[00:17:15] if we absolutely have to, we can
[00:17:17] probably cut a few thousand here and
[00:17:18] there, but it's not going to be a great
[00:17:21] amount, you know?
[00:17:23] >> I mean, what what we looked for, what we
[00:17:26] ended up with are two different numbers.
[00:17:28] Yep. We're going to make it work. But,
[00:17:32] >> okay.
[00:17:33] >> You know, Lori works hard on it. She
[00:17:35] shows me all the numbers that keeps an
[00:17:37] eye on everything pretty close.
[00:17:40] It's been this year has been real tough.
[00:17:42] You know, we got all the price increases
[00:17:44] with no budget increase. Not knowing,
[00:17:47] you know, what it was going to be like
[00:17:48] at this point in time.
[00:17:50] >> You do still have an open position,
[00:17:53] correct?
[00:17:54] >> Yeah, I do.
[00:17:56] >> We Excuse me. We had an interview
[00:17:59] scheduled for this evening with no show.
[00:18:01] >> Yep.
[00:18:02] >> And they didn't show up. No.
[00:18:04] >> Second time for the same position.
[00:18:07] >> Okay. Um,
[00:18:09] any consideration to make it a part-time
[00:18:12] position maybe or I mean you have been
[00:18:15] getting by without it for
[00:18:18] a little while and and I'll be honest
[00:18:20] with you, it's burning me out. No.
[00:18:23] >> Okay. Okay. I'm just asking.
[00:18:27] >> And down No, I
[00:18:30] >> in out of the machine um
[00:18:34] into a truck back into the machine, you
[00:18:36] know. I mean, anytime you want guys want
[00:18:39] to come up, we're working on Turkey
[00:18:40] Street and it's not
[00:18:43] >> at the end of the day. I feel it.
[00:18:45] >> You really need the added possession.
[00:18:48] Okay.
[00:18:49] >> You know, I got one in a truck. I got
[00:18:50] one in a truck and back and forth and
[00:18:53] different piece of equipment. I'm laying
[00:18:55] the pipe digging it, you know. All
[00:18:58] right. It's
[00:19:01] >> Any other questions for Marty?
[00:19:04] How are you going to manage your chapter
[00:19:06] 90 money and be able to get that or your
[00:19:08] highway money that you get from the
[00:19:09] state every year if you're so so
[00:19:11] understaffed?
[00:19:13] >> That's what we're working on now. That's
[00:19:15] the problem,
[00:19:16] >> right?
[00:19:16] >> So like this year we're working on
[00:19:20] Turkey Street in the last section of
[00:19:21] Thresher Road. Thresher Road's been
[00:19:24] ongoing for quite a few years.
[00:19:27] Um
[00:19:29] and we've got a deadline to hit. So,
[00:19:36] I mean, we're we're doing okay,
[00:19:38] >> but it's not been easy, you know.
[00:19:42] >> Um, and without bringing in a sub to do
[00:19:47] all of what we're doing.
[00:19:48] >> Mhm.
[00:19:48] >> We're hitting $538,000
[00:19:51] just for reclaiming paving.
[00:19:52] >> Yeah.
[00:19:52] >> To go from the town line to Suzi Road,
[00:19:56] 1.6 miles. You know,
[00:19:59] >> that's just materials. any including any
[00:20:02] labor, machines, nothing?
[00:20:06] No. All right.
[00:20:09] So, half a million dollars, the material
[00:20:12] basically.
[00:20:13] >> Mhm.
[00:20:15] >> If you don't mind, I have a quick
[00:20:16] question. Okay. Follow
[00:20:18] >> when you use your equipment and machines
[00:20:21] and stuff like that. Do you get to
[00:20:23] charge a rental fee to the state or a
[00:20:25] charge usage kind of thing?
[00:20:27] >> No.
[00:20:28] >> Okay. Um, and you don't want to get into
[00:20:31] that.
[00:20:31] >> Okay.
[00:20:32] >> They bought most of the stuff.
[00:20:34] >> Okay, fair enough.
[00:20:35] >> You know, like the excavator and all
[00:20:37] that.
[00:20:38] >> The town that didn't come out of my
[00:20:39] budget. All that stuff.
[00:20:41] >> We did a lease.
[00:20:44] >> Uh, it showed what we're going to save.
[00:20:47] >> Mhm.
[00:20:47] >> And so they actually bought us the
[00:20:51] equipment to do the job.
[00:20:52] >> Okay.
[00:20:52] >> You know,
[00:20:54] one last question, Mr. Chair, if it's
[00:20:56] okay.
[00:20:56] >> Yes, sir. Um, the last question is is I
[00:21:01] know we're advertising for your
[00:21:02] positions.
[00:21:03] >> Yep.
[00:21:04] >> What would be the right price to attract
[00:21:07] a qualified applicant in here?
[00:21:09] >> I'll be honest with you, you probably
[00:21:11] couldn't pay to keep up with the outside
[00:21:14] public. I mean, I think Barry's up,
[00:21:17] they're up around 30 an hour now.
[00:21:19] >> Mhm. Um, and they're starting to get
[00:21:22] employees, you know. Um,
[00:21:26] and not I know okay went up even the
[00:21:29] branch tree raised theirs. I'm not sure
[00:21:31] what everybody has just raised to.
[00:21:33] >> Mhm. you know, but I mean with Staten at
[00:21:36] 25
[00:21:38] and these young kids that come after a
[00:21:40] few weeks, they notice, you know, it all
[00:21:43] this
[00:21:45] all these deductions coming out of that
[00:21:47] pay for their retirement for, you know,
[00:21:50] the insurance, everything else, it's
[00:21:51] it's big, you know, at 25 an hour,
[00:21:54] >> right?
[00:21:55] >> You know, just like these guys, 2% raise
[00:21:57] and our insurance went up 14%.
[00:22:00] >> Yeah. you know,
[00:22:02] >> so even the guys I got are getting a cut
[00:22:04] to pay this year and they only got
[00:22:06] single points,
[00:22:08] >> you know.
[00:22:12] >> You don't have to give us an exact
[00:22:13] number tonight or anything, but it's
[00:22:15] something to think about and let us know
[00:22:17] even whatever that number is.
[00:22:18] >> Yeah. No, so we can
[00:22:19] >> I mean, basically, I got to reach out to
[00:22:22] people around us to, you know,
[00:22:24] >> I know Barry's trying to get help. I
[00:22:26] don't know exactly what they raised to.
[00:22:28] >> Okay.
[00:22:29] >> I can find out. Okay, great.
[00:22:31] >> Second bill.
[00:22:33] >> Um,
[00:22:34] so what are the uh the position that's
[00:22:38] opening
[00:22:39] >> truck driver labor,
[00:22:41] >> but it requires
[00:22:42] >> they have to have the CDL
[00:22:43] >> CDL and a hydraulics license.
[00:22:47] >> We will work with them.
[00:22:48] >> We will pay for the license if they say
[00:22:50] for two years.
[00:22:52] >> They got to sign, you know.
[00:22:53] >> Yeah,
[00:22:54] >> because that's a big problem now. these
[00:22:57] young kids. It's cost a big cost because
[00:22:59] the state of Massachusetts now makes you
[00:23:01] go to school before they'll give you a
[00:23:02] CDL license,
[00:23:03] >> right?
[00:23:04] >> Yeah. When I got mine, I could challenge
[00:23:06] a test. Now you have to go through the
[00:23:08] >> Right.
[00:23:08] >> Yeah.
[00:23:10] >> And how much are we advertising that
[00:23:13] position for
[00:23:14] >> up to 26?
[00:23:16] >> 26.
[00:23:16] >> Yeah.
[00:23:18] >> And you're saying Barry's already paying
[00:23:20] 30.
[00:23:21] >> Yeah. I think they're starting at 30
[00:23:24] offering bill 32 or 33.
[00:23:27] >> Okay.
[00:23:28] Okay. Now, Bill,
[00:23:29] >> thank you. At a recent meeting with the
[00:23:31] select board and the finance committee
[00:23:33] about the budget, it was suggested
[00:23:36] at least tossed around that maybe one
[00:23:39] position could remain unfilled. In other
[00:23:41] words, not advertise and save that cost.
[00:23:44] Uh Ryan Winklas raised a good question
[00:23:46] at that point at that meeting asking if
[00:23:49] that position being filled would allow
[00:23:53] the department to pay less in contract
[00:23:58] fees for labor such as snow and ice. In
[00:24:02] other words, right, would would that new
[00:24:04] person be able to save on labor
[00:24:07] elsewhere?
[00:24:08] >> Oh, yeah.
[00:24:08] >> And could could that be quantified at
[00:24:10] all as as as the budget's worked out? So
[00:24:14] snow and ice doesn't come out of the
[00:24:17] pay. There's a separate line item in
[00:24:20] snow and ice for overtime, but basically
[00:24:24] their salary doesn't come out of snow
[00:24:26] and ice, you know, so it's not going to
[00:24:28] drop snow and ice down at any, you know,
[00:24:36] >> it would be labor savings or not in the
[00:24:38] elsewhere in the budget if you if that
[00:24:40] position was filled. Well, they would
[00:24:42] have another guy in a sander, you know,
[00:24:45] truck and sander. So, it would bring
[00:24:49] labor down in the fact that it would get
[00:24:51] done a little bit sooner.
[00:24:53] >> But you can't put a number to it is what
[00:24:55] you're saying.
[00:24:56] >> Exactly.
[00:24:56] >> At least at this point, that that would
[00:24:58] take an experience.
[00:24:59] >> Snow ice you can't put a number on
[00:25:01] anyways. I mean, you don't know what
[00:25:02] you're going to deal with here. This
[00:25:03] winter we had about everything, you
[00:25:06] know. Um, we had 3-in storms that cost
[00:25:10] 15 hours, you know, just because the
[00:25:13] ice, it didn't come down, you know, and
[00:25:16] it was just the temperatures, everything
[00:25:19] stems and there's no way of putting cost
[00:25:22] on mother nature
[00:25:25] >> pretty much. You have any questions,
[00:25:27] Zach?
[00:25:29] >> No, I kind of agree with what Bill was
[00:25:31] getting at. I think uh I have looked at
[00:25:33] comps around here and I know what I know
[00:25:37] what the town I'm working in is paying
[00:25:39] and we are we are behind. So I think
[00:25:42] that's why this position has gone
[00:25:43] unfilled. Um on top of what Marty
[00:25:46] pointed out with the state kind of
[00:25:48] [clears throat] eliminate the CDL. Um
[00:25:52] so but no I don't other than that.
[00:25:55] >> Okay. Any further questions for the
[00:25:57] highway department?
[00:25:59] >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Marty.
[00:26:04] >> Next is fire.
[00:26:08] So, we're already working
[00:26:12] bare bones at this point. Our calls are
[00:26:15] going up. Gear prices and equipment
[00:26:17] prices are going up. We're spending more
[00:26:20] in labor. We're already up to 75 calls
[00:26:22] this year. That's more than half what we
[00:26:25] did last year.
[00:26:26] >> Mhm.
[00:26:26] >> So, we got equipment that's expiring.
[00:26:29] All my helmets are going out this year.
[00:26:31] My boots are going out this year.
[00:26:35] Got some on the grant money, but I'm
[00:26:36] still got a ton more sets to replace.
[00:26:41] So, any cut in that budget is going to
[00:26:43] throw us further backwards.
[00:26:47] >> Any questions, gentlemen?
[00:26:50] >> Um,
[00:26:51] did you find out the number of EMS goals
[00:26:54] that were due in town?
[00:26:55] >> It's about 420 a year.
[00:27:03] anything, Bill?
[00:27:05] >> I
[00:27:05] >> I mean, if you just look at the budget,
[00:27:07] fire is
[00:27:08] >> fire is understaffed and well, under
[00:27:11] budgeted for many, many, many years.
[00:27:14] >> We're trying to make up the best we can
[00:27:15] with grants, but
[00:27:16] >> Right.
[00:27:16] >> Right now, the federal grants are shut
[00:27:18] down.
[00:27:19] >> Yep.
[00:27:20] >> And that's a big hit right now.
[00:27:23] >> Right.
[00:27:25] Okay, we'll move on to the police.
[00:27:29] >> Good evening.
[00:27:32] >> So, just prior to my going on vacation
[00:27:35] in the middle of April, I'd already cut
[00:27:37] almost $10,000 out of my operating
[00:27:39] budget
[00:27:40] >> um for this current operating year or
[00:27:41] fiscal coming up. Um
[00:27:45] I
[00:27:48] basically level funded again every line
[00:27:50] item that I have. And I mean, as I think
[00:27:53] at least two of you know, I do
[00:27:54] everything in my power to stay within my
[00:27:56] budget and that little amounts that we
[00:27:58] actually do have and make it work and
[00:28:00] make those pennies.
[00:28:02] The only place that I had thought about
[00:28:04] even reducing was fuel. And I went from
[00:28:07] $500 fuel bills to $1,300 fuel bills
[00:28:11] >> um in a matter of two weeks.
[00:28:13] >> So, my fuel is where we used to have the
[00:28:16] $400 or $5,000 savings is gone. Um Lori
[00:28:19] and I actually did the fuel out today.
[00:28:22] I'll basically hit $25,000 by June 30th
[00:28:25] for the gas for the town of Hardick. So
[00:28:28] it'll be gone. Um that was the only
[00:28:30] place. Otherwise, uh everything else is
[00:28:33] contractual and mandatory.
[00:28:36] >> Okay.
[00:28:38] >> Any questions?
[00:28:39] >> Mr. Chair, I have a question.
[00:28:40] >> Yes. Um
[00:28:42] Kevin through the um agreement with New
[00:28:46] Brainree.
[00:28:47] >> Y
[00:28:47] >> do they pitch in for the fuel?
[00:28:49] >> They do. They just cover their own.
[00:28:50] >> They they cover theirs and then they
[00:28:52] cover the lieutenant my car half. So for
[00:28:57] example, you know, every other fuel they
[00:29:00] pick up for us being admin.
[00:29:02] >> If there's a call heavy that we're
[00:29:04] heavily in New Brainree, New Brainree
[00:29:06] picks up that call.
[00:29:08] >> Okay. So, we play the game of depending
[00:29:09] on what the call is and how much they
[00:29:12] take. Um, I can tell you exactly.
[00:29:16] >> So, the Brain Tree averages 3,000
[00:29:20] gallons a year and we average 4,000.
[00:29:24] >> You just work it out between your
[00:29:25] budgets?
[00:29:25] >> We do. And then they pay, for example,
[00:29:28] this next fill up, they're due to fill
[00:29:31] up a tank. So, they get the bill and
[00:29:33] they pay the bill right out of their
[00:29:34] funds.
[00:29:35] >> All right. And everything too with my
[00:29:37] operating, I think we discussed it
[00:29:39] during some of the other events,
[00:29:40] >> you know, they'll pay an electric bill
[00:29:42] for lower road twice a year. They pay
[00:29:44] for a heating bill for lower road. We
[00:29:47] split those up just to make the pennies
[00:29:49] stretch out.
[00:29:49] >> Okay.
[00:29:50] >> My only problem with I don't want to say
[00:29:52] problem with the brain. They I have
[00:29:54] broken up accounts here. They give me
[00:29:56] one expense account there that covers my
[00:29:58] uniform allowances for the two officers.
[00:30:00] That covers the training costs for the
[00:30:02] two officers. That covers vehicle
[00:30:05] maintenance. It covers everything for
[00:30:08] >> So,
[00:30:09] >> all right. Well, thank you.
[00:30:12] >> Anything for the police?
[00:30:14] >> No, I met with them um was that couple
[00:30:18] week Wednesday week ago. Wednesday
[00:30:20] >> about a week ago.
[00:30:21] >> And the work they're doing uh it it just
[00:30:25] amazes me that they are so underfunded
[00:30:28] in my opinion. They they do a lot for
[00:30:30] the two towns and I wish there were more
[00:30:33] we could do for
[00:30:36] them. I mean, honestly, that's where I'm
[00:30:39] at.
[00:30:40] >> Okay, that's it. Thank you, Chief.
[00:30:45] >> Oh, we have a couple. All right, go
[00:30:47] ahead, Neil.
[00:30:48] >> Mr. Chair, I I have a question. um for
[00:30:51] police and fire and even for highway.
[00:30:53] Does the town investigate contracted
[00:30:57] purchases for the fuel buying futures or
[00:31:00] group purchases? Is it to level this
[00:31:05] cost changes out?
[00:31:06] >> We are getting a lot of nods from the
[00:31:09] individuals involved.
[00:31:10] >> So it goes out to bid every year. Um,
[00:31:14] unfortunately we usually don't get a gas
[00:31:16] bidder, so we have to go with state bid
[00:31:19] on gas. Um, like now I'm only paying
[00:31:24] $3.19 for diesel fuel.
[00:31:27] >> Holy cow, [laughter]
[00:31:29] >> it's almost up. That's why our budgets
[00:31:32] show the way they act.
[00:31:33] >> It's going to change.
[00:31:34] >> It's going to change drastically.
[00:31:35] >> And in regards to gas, it's off the
[00:31:38] state. So it's on a rolling amount. So,
[00:31:40] it's so much off the state and federal
[00:31:42] price. Um, right now, I think my last
[00:31:45] bill was 371 a gallon is what we're
[00:31:48] paying. Um, one of the issues before
[00:31:51] when we actually did have a gas bid, uh,
[00:31:54] there was a clause that they could
[00:31:56] increase if the costs went up, but there
[00:31:59] was no clause to decrease, right?
[00:32:01] >> So, we were still paying four something
[00:32:03] a gallon when we were back to $2 a
[00:32:05] gallon. So by leaving that at state bid,
[00:32:08] we're actually fluctuating at least with
[00:32:10] market where it's a little more fair.
[00:32:15] >> Okay.
[00:32:16] Oh, I got two more. Yes.
[00:32:19] >> I just want to remind everybody these
[00:32:22] guys here are here 24/7.
[00:32:25] So if you cut their budgets, that's bad
[00:32:29] cuz they're here whenever you guys need
[00:32:31] them. So please remember that. Thank
[00:32:34] you. Thank you. Yes, Bill.
[00:32:37] >> Years and years ago, before any of these
[00:32:39] folks were here, I recall a couple
[00:32:42] incidents
[00:32:44] um of theft for personal use of fuel.
[00:32:48] I'm just asking what the protocols are
[00:32:50] now, whether everything is secure. Mr.
[00:32:53] Chair,
[00:32:53] >> yes.
[00:32:54] >> So, right now there's cameras on the
[00:32:55] pumps and all the pumps are gone.
[00:32:58] They're keyops that goes to a computer
[00:33:01] system
[00:33:02] >> um where electronically does it. You
[00:33:04] have to put a pin in so you know who
[00:33:05] does it, what the pin is. Um, the police
[00:33:08] department controls it so we put the
[00:33:10] people in, we know who's accessing it,
[00:33:12] and I can pull it up on my computer
[00:33:14] instantly and see who took gas, where it
[00:33:16] went, and you can confirm it with the
[00:33:18] camera.
[00:33:19] >> Thank you. Very good.
[00:33:22] All right. Anything more? All right.
[00:33:25] Next up is the library.
[00:33:29] I prepared a paper and I put some on
[00:33:31] your desk because I thought it's a
[00:33:33] little convoluted and hard to
[00:33:35] understand. But if Hardwick does not
[00:33:37] meet the municipal appropriation
[00:33:39] requirement, we call it the M of the
[00:33:42] Mass Board of Library Commissioners.
[00:33:44] Hardwick libraries will lose
[00:33:46] certification. The appropriation is
[00:33:48] based on population. It's expected to
[00:33:51] increase by less than 1% a year.
[00:33:56] To remain certified without copious
[00:33:58] paperwork and a meeting between the MBLC
[00:34:01] and the board of selectment, the MAR for
[00:34:03] 2027 would be set at $97,51469.
[00:34:10] 9,51469
[00:34:12] is $1,29.85
[00:34:16] 85 cents less than the 2026 appropriated
[00:34:20] income which was 98,72554.
[00:34:25] So 90% of this year's MAR is 88,85298
[00:34:33] which is $8,661.71
[00:34:38] less than this year's requirement which
[00:34:41] is 97,51469.
[00:34:44] So 2.5%
[00:34:46] of the average of the last three years
[00:34:49] total appropriated municipal income is
[00:34:52] the required yearly increase. That's
[00:34:54] less than 1% a year. And that ensures
[00:34:58] that a municipality remains certified
[00:35:00] receives state aid to public libraries.
[00:35:03] Last year the state aid um to hardware
[00:35:07] was $8,749.83
[00:35:12] in Massachusetts. An uncertified library
[00:35:15] cannot receive state aid and cannot be
[00:35:17] part of an interl loan system. Books can
[00:35:20] only be lent to citizens of their own
[00:35:22] town. Their citizens cannot borrow from
[00:35:25] other towns. Being part of a larger
[00:35:27] interl loan system has been very
[00:35:29] successful in connecting hardick
[00:35:31] citizens to books and materials
[00:35:33] available throughout the state and
[00:35:34] online.
[00:35:36] Informed people make good citizens who
[00:35:38] make good decisions. Studies show that
[00:35:41] when resources and activities are
[00:35:43] available, there are fewer issues with
[00:35:45] negative behavior, drug abuse,
[00:35:47] isolation, and depression. Certification
[00:35:50] is granted to libraries that follow the
[00:35:52] formula to provide services. This
[00:35:55] includes the minimum appropriated
[00:35:57] municipal income, hours of operation,
[00:35:59] which includes some evenings, 19.5% of
[00:36:03] the budget to be spent on books and
[00:36:04] materials to circulate, and programs.
[00:36:08] The figure reported to the MBLC annually
[00:36:11] for certification will be either the
[00:36:13] municipal appropriation requirement or
[00:36:16] the total appropriated municipal income,
[00:36:19] whichever is higher.
[00:36:21] >> Okay, thank you. Any questions for
[00:36:24] Julie?
[00:36:27] >> What is the total appropriation amount
[00:36:29] that the library needs?
[00:36:32] >> We had requested
[00:36:34] 102,000.
[00:36:36] >> Mhm. And we felt that was fair. But the
[00:36:39] calibration from the MBLC said it can't
[00:36:42] be any lower than 97,51469,
[00:36:46] which is actually less than last year's.
[00:36:49] Mhm.
[00:36:52] >> Anything with that?
[00:36:55] >> And I spoke to MBLC this morning and
[00:37:00] they did again warn that the paperwork
[00:37:03] is horrible if we ask for a waiver. And
[00:37:08] you folks are the ones who would have to
[00:37:11] appear to the MBLC to negotiate a
[00:37:15] settlement.
[00:37:17] >> Yes. Um, in regard to the waiver, I
[00:37:20] don't think we would qualify unless we
[00:37:22] cut um the budget by what we're cutting
[00:37:26] the library by for every department. So,
[00:37:30] unless you're cutting every department
[00:37:32] by the same amount as you're cutting the
[00:37:35] library, we wouldn't meet the um
[00:37:37] qualifications,
[00:37:39] I believe, for waivers. Is that your
[00:37:40] understanding? And I think it's also
[00:37:43] important to point out that I think for
[00:37:46] decades we've only ever asked for the
[00:37:49] minimum amount, which is a 2 and 12%
[00:37:52] increase to maintain our state
[00:37:54] certification. So Julie is kept at 19
[00:37:57] hours a week. Um the job is more than 19
[00:38:00] hours a week. We're lucky to have Julie.
[00:38:02] She goes above and beyond. Um, but if we
[00:38:05] ever need to replace her, I mean, we're
[00:38:08] talking about it's challenging to get
[00:38:10] someone who's qualified. Um, to ask them
[00:38:14] to work without benefits at a really low
[00:38:17] hourly rate. I don't know how we would
[00:38:21] get someone else. Um, so I just want to
[00:38:24] point out that we always have been
[00:38:27] asking for with the understanding that
[00:38:31] >> times are tough and I'm on the capital
[00:38:33] planning committee. I understand what
[00:38:36] we're up against, but maintaining
[00:38:39] certification is really, really
[00:38:42] important. Without I mean, Julie only
[00:38:44] scratched the surface. Without
[00:38:45] certification, we can't apply for any
[00:38:47] grants from the state. Um, in 2011 we
[00:38:51] got a $10,000 LSTA grant. We rely on
[00:38:54] grants like that if we ever want to, you
[00:38:57] know, do expansion or construction
[00:38:59] grant. We wouldn't be eligible for those
[00:39:01] if we weren't certified. And if you have
[00:39:04] a CW Mars card and we're descertified,
[00:39:07] you can go to Barry Wear, Peter Sam. You
[00:39:10] will not be able to check out books from
[00:39:13] any state certified library. Um, you're
[00:39:17] not certified. if you don't support the
[00:39:20] reciprocal borrowing system. So, it's
[00:39:25] our patrons would feel it.
[00:39:27] >> Mr. Chair, may I ask a question?
[00:39:29] >> Yes.
[00:39:29] >> Um, well, one, I just want to echo what
[00:39:32] Jenna and Julie said, and they do they
[00:39:34] they really only ask for what they need
[00:39:36] to keep their certification, at least
[00:39:37] since I've been here. Um, my question is
[00:39:40] more so, I know there's been talks of
[00:39:42] the Gilbertville Library. What happens
[00:39:45] to the certification and that number if
[00:39:47] the Gilbertville library dissolves and
[00:39:49] it's no longer a library? How does that
[00:39:50] affect the page and how does that affect
[00:39:52] the numbers on the sheet?
[00:39:53] >> So, our statistics are combined. Um, the
[00:39:57] MBLC, the Massachusetts Board of Library
[00:39:59] Commissioners, we're in a unique
[00:40:01] situation where we support the town
[00:40:05] supports two libraries. Even though one
[00:40:06] is technically an association library,
[00:40:09] they are given an operating budget, but
[00:40:11] the MBLC sees us under one umbrella. So,
[00:40:15] um, our statistics are combined. Both
[00:40:17] libraries are certified. Um, so if you
[00:40:20] remove just the Gilbert build portion of
[00:40:22] the budget, they're going to see that as
[00:40:25] an overall reduction in the library
[00:40:29] budget and that will affect our
[00:40:30] certification. So,
[00:40:33] that money that goes to Gilbertville, if
[00:40:35] it doesn't come back to us because it
[00:40:37] was half of ours, then that will affect
[00:40:41] the certification of the page library.
[00:40:43] Right now, both libraries are certified.
[00:40:47] >> Okay.
[00:40:48] >> The MBLC
[00:40:50] based on population designates the
[00:40:53] amount of money per town. So, it doesn't
[00:40:56] matter. They don't care. As she said
[00:40:58] this morning, I don't care if you have
[00:40:59] six libraries. Your designated amount is
[00:41:04] based on the population of your
[00:41:06] community.
[00:41:08] >> All right. That makes sense.
[00:41:10] >> Thank you. So whether it's whether it's
[00:41:11] the one or the two, it it has to be that
[00:41:14] number.
[00:41:15] >> Okay.
[00:41:16] >> And Hardik's done an admirable job of
[00:41:19] maintaining the two libraries.
[00:41:21] >> Yes.
[00:41:22] >> Uh the Gilbertville Library and the Page
[00:41:26] Library have been working to unite
[00:41:29] because there is a savings from having
[00:41:32] for having one library with two
[00:41:34] satellites
[00:41:36] >> or one library with one satellite and
[00:41:38] we're working on that. Uh but at this
[00:41:40] point we are open and continue plan to
[00:41:43] continue to stay open for the coming
[00:41:47] year.
[00:41:48] >> Thank you.
[00:41:51] >> All right. Any other questions for
[00:41:53] library people?
[00:41:56] >> Now Jen was that
[00:41:57] >> I said I don't have any.
[00:41:58] >> Okay.
[00:42:01] General government is next on our uh
[00:42:04] >> um yeah I mean we've gone through we've
[00:42:08] gone through the budget. you know, we
[00:42:09] have a lot of one person departments.
[00:42:12] Um, we have one vacancy that now we're
[00:42:14] looking for. So, I have no idea what
[00:42:16] we're going to get for that position if
[00:42:19] cuz, you know, when we had a prior
[00:42:23] accountant, she was making a little bit
[00:42:24] more. Um, so I don't know what that's
[00:42:27] going to come in at. Um, I just put
[00:42:29] depending on qualifications in the job
[00:42:30] advertising. You're
[00:42:31] >> talking about the Yeah. Um, so I just
[00:42:33] put depending on qualifications in the
[00:42:35] job posting today. Um the treasur, she's
[00:42:38] working six days a week. Um you know, so
[00:42:42] if you have any specific questions about
[00:42:43] the operating, but we have a lot of
[00:42:44] oneperson departments, at most we have
[00:42:47] two. And if majority is part on a
[00:42:50] part-time basis minus a few department
[00:42:51] heads, even our accountants part-time,
[00:42:53] which is also a challenge because it's
[00:42:55] full-time work that we're only paying
[00:42:57] for 19 hours. So um again, we're just
[00:43:00] we're bare bones
[00:43:02] um everywhere.
[00:43:05] Um, if anyone if anyone on the board has
[00:43:07] any specific questions, I'll be happy to
[00:43:08] answer anything.
[00:43:09] >> Anything? Zach, uh, Bill, do you have
[00:43:13] any questions?
[00:43:15] >> No,
[00:43:15] >> I mean, I have questions, but I'll I'll
[00:43:17] save it for
[00:43:18] >> budget.
[00:43:18] >> The budget finance committee here and
[00:43:21] stuff and we'll go over and hash it out.
[00:43:24] >> Thank you. And Zach,
[00:43:26] >> see echoing what he had. Yeah.
[00:43:30] >> Okay, Bill,
[00:43:31] >> if I may, thank you.
[00:43:32] >> Bill in the back. So, um, in the past, I
[00:43:35] know some some individuals and some
[00:43:37] organizations have simply chosen to make
[00:43:40] gifts to the town. Um, they've been able
[00:43:43] to target that in some spaces for
[00:43:45] certain purposes. Um I'm wondering
[00:43:50] what the mechanism is for that, how that
[00:43:53] would be handled in the budget and how
[00:43:55] we might um might welcome that from
[00:43:58] different individuals who see that a
[00:44:01] particular or general need of the town
[00:44:03] might be addressed that way.
[00:44:06] >> Um
[00:44:06] >> donations.
[00:44:07] >> So yeah, if so if someone makes a
[00:44:09] donation, it has to be accepted by the
[00:44:11] board of selectmen. Um, the check has to
[00:44:14] say town of Hardwick, but they have to
[00:44:15] provide a letter or something that
[00:44:16] designates what what it's for. Like, you
[00:44:19] know, I'm giving a $100 to replace
[00:44:21] Bill's awful chair in the select word
[00:44:23] room, whatever. Um,
[00:44:26] they just have to designate exactly what
[00:44:27] it's going to go towards and then the
[00:44:29] check has to say town of Hardwick and
[00:44:30] then you, the three of you have to
[00:44:33] accept it.
[00:44:35] >> Does that answer your question, Bill?
[00:44:36] >> I think so.
[00:44:37] >> Okay.
[00:44:41] All right. Thank you for the departments
[00:44:43] for showing up. Um,
[00:44:48] now, uh, the RFP for 179 Main Street in
[00:44:53] Gilbertville.
[00:44:54] >> Mr. Chair.
[00:44:55] >> Yes, ma'am.
[00:44:56] >> Um, so I had sent this over to the
[00:44:59] historic commission and their meeting is
[00:45:01] not until the 13th. Um, so I know you
[00:45:04] had asked at the last meeting that I
[00:45:06] forward it to them. So, um I don't have
[00:45:08] any Oh, Mr. Mri is here.
[00:45:11] >> Yes.
[00:45:12] >> Yeah. Um
[00:45:14] we have prepared
[00:45:16] um an RF or not an RFP, I'm sorry. Um a
[00:45:21] preservation
[00:45:23] um covenant for the page building. Um
[00:45:27] and certainly our board is likely to
[00:45:32] recommend the same type of preservation
[00:45:36] covenant that will protect the building.
[00:45:38] As you're aware, Hardwick has um
[00:45:42] multiple historic districts. They're
[00:45:44] national overlay districts and the
[00:45:47] purpose of those and the purpose of the
[00:45:49] historic commission is to help preserve
[00:45:52] the architectural and historic character
[00:45:54] of the town.
[00:45:56] Uh the school building is certainly a
[00:46:01] significant building within that and um
[00:46:05] although it has had alterations over the
[00:46:08] years, it makes sense to try to maintain
[00:46:12] that building in as appropriate historic
[00:46:16] nature as possible. Now, there's benefit
[00:46:19] to a potential bidder
[00:46:21] uh who uh decides to
[00:46:26] partly uh
[00:46:29] uh benefit by following the Secretary of
[00:46:32] Interior's standards for historic
[00:46:34] rehabilitation.
[00:46:35] for 2026, there's a 20% federal tax
[00:46:39] credit for historic uh rehabilitation,
[00:46:43] and it starts from the first dollar
[00:46:48] above the original purchase value. So,
[00:46:52] let's say somebody
[00:46:54] I I again, I don't know how much it's
[00:46:56] worth, but let's say somebody purchases
[00:46:58] a building for a couple hundred,000.
[00:47:01] Once they've expended that same amount,
[00:47:05] every dollar over that, they get a 20 uh
[00:47:09] 20 cents on a dollar tax credit, which
[00:47:12] can add up because that's a significant
[00:47:14] project. That building to restore is
[00:47:17] probably going to take a million dollars
[00:47:19] or more depending on the use. So, it can
[00:47:25] benefit greatly the potential bidder to
[00:47:29] consider that. And um the historic
[00:47:33] commission again we're not meeting till
[00:47:35] Wednesday but uh it's likely that we
[00:47:39] will take the same position we took on
[00:47:41] the page building to help preserve uh
[00:47:44] and protect the character of the town. I
[00:47:47] do have a copy which I can submit to you
[00:47:50] of the uh
[00:47:52] um preservation restriction agreement
[00:47:55] which was uh proposed for the page
[00:47:57] building. This was um put together by um
[00:48:02] the um Mass Historic Commission and I
[00:48:05] worked with them uh Michael Skynets who
[00:48:08] is uh the director of MHC.
[00:48:12] So it has the statutory language which
[00:48:15] is necessary for a permanent uh uh
[00:48:19] preservation restriction. So the, you
[00:48:23] know, one of the issues with buildings
[00:48:25] like this is if somebody does a
[00:48:28] restoration or renovation to the
[00:48:30] building
[00:48:32] and it is resold,
[00:48:35] the preservation
[00:48:37] um covenant runs with the land and runs
[00:48:41] with the building in perpetuity. So it
[00:48:43] protects it forever. Um the the town is
[00:48:48] very fortunate on the page building have
[00:48:51] having selected well um the group that's
[00:48:55] working on that building is considering
[00:48:57] it a historic project and that they're
[00:49:00] doing it correctly and we're in
[00:49:03] discussions with them to make sure that
[00:49:07] they're willing to put a preservation
[00:49:09] covenant moving forward on that
[00:49:11] building. So, in the event uh of their
[00:49:15] uh disuse of the building or their
[00:49:17] demise or uh termination that the
[00:49:20] building is protected because they're in
[00:49:23] the heart of our historic districts. So,
[00:49:25] I hope that you would consider uh adding
[00:49:28] that. The language that's in the
[00:49:31] existing RFP only talks to um uh adding
[00:49:36] some bonus points to a potential bidder
[00:49:39] if they have preservation experience,
[00:49:41] but it does not have a preservation
[00:49:44] attached to it.
[00:49:46] >> I'll take a look at the language if you
[00:49:47] want.
[00:49:47] >> So, okay.
[00:49:48] >> I'd like to submit this for the record.
[00:49:51] >> Okay. And uh the historical commission
[00:49:54] is uh going to meet on Wednesday.
[00:49:57] >> We'll send a letter to you with our
[00:49:59] recommendation.
[00:50:00] >> Okay.
[00:50:00] >> Very good. Thank you very much, John.
[00:50:06] So, uh I entertain a motion to table
[00:50:10] this until a later meeting.
[00:50:12] >> Okay. Um couple questions. So,
[00:50:14] >> okay.
[00:50:15] >> Um I didn't get to go through this one
[00:50:17] in particular, but at the last one, we
[00:50:19] didn't have a minimum set price. Do we
[00:50:21] have a minimum bid price or
[00:50:24] something like do we have an assessed
[00:50:26] value from the assessor that says hey
[00:50:29] this building's worth 250,000 or
[00:50:31] 100,000?
[00:50:32] >> Yeah, I have the um value from the
[00:50:34] assessor and you're right it's actually
[00:50:36] it's like 230 something.
[00:50:38] >> Okay.
[00:50:38] >> Um it's depreciated [clears throat] 50%.
[00:50:41] >> Okay. So are we going to have language
[00:50:43] in this that says if the bid is for
[00:50:45] $10,000 we're going to reject it?
[00:50:47] >> That's your call. Whatever you want me
[00:50:49] to add.
[00:50:51] I mean, we're looking for at least a
[00:50:53] minimum bid, correct, sir?
[00:50:54] >> I I would think so.
[00:50:56] >> Okay.
[00:50:57] >> Um,
[00:50:58] >> I I think at least what whatever it's
[00:51:00] assessed at, I think would be a smart
[00:51:02] minimum bid.
[00:51:04] >> Okay.
[00:51:07] >> We should add that to the RFP then,
[00:51:09] >> right?
[00:51:12] >> Mr. Chair,
[00:51:14] >> okay. Yes. John,
[00:51:15] >> just quick comment. um the um
[00:51:20] whether or not you assign a minimum bid.
[00:51:23] One of the things that I have seen and
[00:51:25] I've served on the board of selection in
[00:51:28] another community for a number of years
[00:51:30] and other historic missions and have
[00:51:33] dealt with the assession of many
[00:51:35] municipal buildings. Remember, the goal
[00:51:39] is to put that building back into
[00:51:41] service and to be able to have a taxable
[00:51:45] revenue stream from it.
[00:51:48] >> Mhm.
[00:51:48] >> As well as uh help with character of the
[00:51:53] neighborhood. So having a positive
[00:51:55] project remember the the goal
[00:51:59] accelerates from there so that the
[00:52:02] original sales price becomes less
[00:52:05] important than the completed value. If
[00:52:08] somebody uh you know makes a bid based
[00:52:13] on existing project but they have all
[00:52:17] the characteristics and qualities. that
[00:52:19] are going to put that back into a
[00:52:21] taxpaying building that can serve the
[00:52:24] town's needs,
[00:52:26] then don't get stuck on the minimum bid
[00:52:29] price.
[00:52:30] >> Just my thoughts.
[00:52:31] >> Thank you,
[00:52:32] >> Mr. Chair.
[00:52:33] >> Yes.
[00:52:34] >> Um I somewhat agree with Mr. Petraia
[00:52:37] because I don't think that we're going
[00:52:39] to get the full assessed value for that
[00:52:41] building. Um, I do also think that it
[00:52:44] needs to be more than 10 because as you
[00:52:46] know, um, whatever we make selling real
[00:52:49] estate, that money has to go back into
[00:52:51] paying down debt. Um, so I think that's
[00:52:53] just something to also remember, too,
[00:52:55] um, when selling property,
[00:52:57] >> um, and real estate. So, I think it
[00:53:00] should be more than 10. I just don't I
[00:53:01] just truly don't believe we're going to
[00:53:02] get over 200,000 for that building. And
[00:53:05] if we don't get over 200,000 for that
[00:53:09] building or whatever the figure is,
[00:53:12] can we still accept it?
[00:53:13] >> Yeah, you can accept it or reject it.
[00:53:15] Um, if it's not sold for the assessed
[00:53:17] value, it's just an extra step for me.
[00:53:19] Um,
[00:53:21] I have to I have to pretty much let the
[00:53:23] state know why um we're selling property
[00:53:26] for less than the assessed value, but
[00:53:28] it's just an extra step for me.
[00:53:29] >> Okay.
[00:53:30] >> Yeah.
[00:53:32] >> Bill,
[00:53:32] >> thank you. Um, I was glad to see the
[00:53:34] town using this RFP request for proposal
[00:53:38] process rather than an auction. This
[00:53:40] isn't an auction as I understand it.
[00:53:42] It's you put out for interest for
[00:53:44] different purposes. And I believe you
[00:53:47] can specify
[00:53:50] what it would what what it's intended to
[00:53:52] be, what you hope it can be. And I would
[00:53:54] just remind you that, and I think
[00:53:55] Justine's well aware of this, Palmer
[00:53:58] this week, they're going to have open
[00:54:00] bids, if you will, or proposals for
[00:54:03] their for a school they have where they
[00:54:06] they have said it's intended for elderly
[00:54:09] housing, 55 and older. They say they
[00:54:13] want to get a million half dollars, but
[00:54:15] those things aren't requirements.
[00:54:18] >> They don't have to take any of the
[00:54:19] deals. They don't have to take the one
[00:54:21] with the most money. they can they can
[00:54:23] take the one that interests them the
[00:54:24] most. So, I think it's a good a good
[00:54:26] process and I think it's good to have to
[00:54:29] to maybe learn something from their
[00:54:31] experience whether they're way off on
[00:54:33] the money, whether it's historic
[00:54:34] building, who the biders were and so
[00:54:37] forth that come in later this week.
[00:54:40] >> Okay.
[00:54:41] >> As long as we have the proper language
[00:54:43] in there, Mr. Chair.
[00:54:44] >> Yes.
[00:54:45] >> So, we can basically decide if it's
[00:54:47] going to benefit the town, the
[00:54:48] community, then Yeah. Maybe it's not
[00:54:51] 200,000, but at the same time, people
[00:54:54] got to realize we're not selling the
[00:54:55] building 10 grand,
[00:54:56] >> right? Or or or a dollar
[00:54:58] >> or a dollar.
[00:55:00] >> I would
[00:55:00] >> I mean, it's got to be a legit
[00:55:02] >> Yeah.
[00:55:04] >> U Mr. Chair.
[00:55:05] >> Yes. Um so I in preparation for the next
[00:55:07] meeting I would take a look at like the
[00:55:09] minimum criteria and compare it to
[00:55:10] selective criteria so you can see the
[00:55:13] rating system and then if you have any
[00:55:15] thing you want to add or change for the
[00:55:16] next meeting. Um
[00:55:20] it goes from highly advantage advant you
[00:55:23] know down to you know
[00:55:26] not so much and it also on page two also
[00:55:28] has the um preferences for uses. So that
[00:55:32] would be se something else um to take a
[00:55:34] look at.
[00:55:38] >> Okay.
[00:55:44] Oh yeah, it says right there too the
[00:55:47] price
[00:56:02] Okay. Very well. We'll put this on our
[00:56:05] next meeting agenda. Okay.
[00:56:13] >> Next, town administrator report.
[00:56:16] >> Um, we had another public records
[00:56:18] request come in. Um, as you know, we put
[00:56:20] out an RFP for IT services. We came
[00:56:23] back, it came back with five proposals.
[00:56:25] Our current provider being the lowest
[00:56:26] bidder
[00:56:28] um at approximately 36,000 um going up
[00:56:31] by thousand increments over the next 3
[00:56:34] years.
[00:56:35] Um the more scholarship applicants were
[00:56:38] received, as you know, the elevator
[00:56:40] field inspection of the townhouse and it
[00:56:42] passed at town hall. Um I've been
[00:56:44] working with the fire chief on the fire
[00:56:47] extinguishers. We're going to get them
[00:56:48] all serviced and and certified. Also,
[00:56:51] there was an issue with the phone in the
[00:56:53] elevator at the townhouse. So, that's
[00:56:55] next on the to-do list. Um, I had a call
[00:56:58] with Do about the PEG access funds. We
[00:57:01] held our bi-weekly financial management
[00:57:03] planning meeting with the treasurer,
[00:57:04] accountant, and the assessor.
[00:57:06] >> Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Just for
[00:57:07] clarification, what is PEG stand for?
[00:57:10] >> Public. It's the public access money.
[00:57:14] >> Okay.
[00:57:14] >> I don't know why they call it PEG, but
[00:57:16] it's the public access like you know the
[00:57:18] recordings and stuff.
[00:57:19] >> All right.
[00:57:22] Thank you.
[00:57:23] >> And do department of revenue.
[00:57:25] >> Mhm.
[00:57:26] >> Um I met with CMRPC, Central Mass
[00:57:29] Regional Planning Commission and Eric
[00:57:30] Ballheim on the MVP grant. Um I had a
[00:57:34] call with another call with CMRPC and
[00:57:36] the chief of police on grant
[00:57:38] opportunities.
[00:57:40] We're advertising for a wastewater
[00:57:42] treatment plant operator, a highway
[00:57:43] equipment operator, a van driver, and a
[00:57:45] recycling center laborer. Um, we did not
[00:57:48] hold a highway interview. That person
[00:57:51] never showed up. Um, I'm finalizing the
[00:57:54] draft employee handbook. So, the board
[00:57:56] is going to be receiving a draft of that
[00:57:58] at your next meeting. Um, we're
[00:58:01] currently in open enrollment. So, the
[00:58:03] treasurer has been working at that. We
[00:58:05] have a meeting on
[00:58:07] Wednesday that all the staff that are
[00:58:09] benefit eligible are invited to to kind
[00:58:11] of learn more about their benefits or if
[00:58:12] they have any questions or to meet with
[00:58:14] our providers.
[00:58:16] Um, I had my wear radio interview that
[00:58:18] all the town administrators and managers
[00:58:20] do monthly. I attended a library board
[00:58:22] of trustees executive session on the
[00:58:24] Gilbert library acquisition.
[00:58:26] Held a monthly department head meeting
[00:58:28] where the master plan steering committee
[00:58:30] came and talked about the master plan
[00:58:32] and we discussed two new policies around
[00:58:34] payroll stipens and reimbursements.
[00:58:38] Attended the Quabin watershed meeting. I
[00:58:41] attended the Massachusetts Municipal
[00:58:43] Association Personnel and Labor
[00:58:44] Relations Policy Committee, which I
[00:58:45] serve on. Um, I want to recognize our
[00:58:48] treasurer, Alyssa Ays. Um, she has been
[00:58:51] fixing all the full-time employee
[00:58:52] acrruels that were never accounted for
[00:58:54] correctly for several years. She also
[00:58:56] went back and looked at last year's
[00:58:58] reconciliations and found $22,000 for
[00:59:01] the town that was not accounted for
[00:59:04] properly. So, we gained $22,000 today
[00:59:07] thanks to the treasurer.
[00:59:09] >> Very good. That's awesome.
[00:59:12] Um, some important dates. Senator Durant
[00:59:14] and Representative Berthium's office
[00:59:15] hours are at town hall May 13th from 10
[00:59:18] to 11. The annual town meeting is June
[00:59:21] 6th. The police department chicken
[00:59:24] barbecue is at 12:00 on June 12th.
[00:59:27] There's information here and and I'm
[00:59:30] sure on your Facebook page.
[00:59:32] >> It will be It's for the senior center.
[00:59:34] Anyone that goes to the senior center,
[00:59:35] we do a chicken barbecue once a year.
[00:59:38] Okay.
[00:59:40] Harvick New Branchry night at the Wox is
[00:59:42] July 22nd. Um there's information um a
[00:59:45] QR code or a link where $5 per ticket
[00:59:48] goes to the Harvick New Branch Police
[00:59:50] Association. Uh and that money is going
[00:59:53] to go to help renovate the police
[00:59:55] station
[00:59:57] and then I just have my time off request
[00:59:59] my time off dates and that's all I have
[01:00:01] tonight.
[01:00:04] Okay. Thank you.
[01:00:09] Westboard round table.
[01:00:12] Who would like to start that off?
[01:00:20] >> Bill.
[01:00:20] >> Welcome.
[01:00:21] >> Okay. I uh so after the email that Bill
[01:00:25] sent out about the fire truck, I started
[01:00:27] doing some research. I made you guys
[01:00:29] some packets. This is all none of this
[01:00:32] is like surprising. is all state law and
[01:00:35] the public records that are online right
[01:00:38] now.
[01:00:39] >> Zach, um, just interrupt real quick.
[01:00:42] It's the public educational and
[01:00:44] government channel.
[01:00:45] >> Oh, channel. Thanks, G.
[01:00:47] >> Hey, I know
[01:00:48] >> that doesn't make sense.
[01:00:49] >> Public education and government channel.
[01:00:51] >> All right. Thanks.
[01:00:52] >> I'm sorry to interrupt.
[01:00:52] >> It's okay.
[01:00:53] >> Okay.
[01:00:55] So, I made this um I just wanted to have
[01:00:58] us all be on the same page and
[01:00:59] understand
[01:01:01] kind of where this came from with the
[01:01:04] firet truck financing. Um so, I took a
[01:01:06] look back at the actual article and then
[01:01:09] the meeting minutes from the town
[01:01:12] meeting and this is what I was what I
[01:01:15] found. This is what's highlighted there.
[01:01:17] Uh if you look at the meeting minutes
[01:01:21] from the town meeting, it actually
[01:01:23] spells out what the uh financing is
[01:01:26] going to be. It's kind of you have to do
[01:01:28] your own research. So uh chapter 44
[01:01:32] section 7-1 and then I also attach the
[01:01:36] law right there for you. So section 7-1
[01:01:41] um specifically the language in it that
[01:01:44] says the uh when the
[01:01:47] it provides for the plans or
[01:01:48] specifications as part of any
[01:01:50] acquisition or project provided the
[01:01:52] interest in land asset acquired or
[01:01:54] project shall have a useful life of at
[01:01:55] least 5 years and provided further that
[01:01:57] the period of such borrowing shall not
[01:01:59] exceed the useful life of the interest
[01:02:01] in land asset acquired or the project.
[01:02:04] Um,
[01:02:06] so that led me to pull up the DLS asset
[01:02:11] maximum, um, statutory maximums. And I,
[01:02:15] if this were like a dump truck that we
[01:02:16] were buying, I would have to do a little
[01:02:18] bit more research on what the useful
[01:02:20] life of that was. But because I'm in the
[01:02:21] fire service, I knew that the useful
[01:02:23] life is is dictated by FBA. Um, the
[01:02:27] actual
[01:02:29] recommendation from NFPA is 1900 Annexa
[01:02:32] A. Um, and the thing about it being an
[01:02:36] annex and not a uh a standard is the
[01:02:41] fact that it is just a recommendation.
[01:02:42] They can't force you to replace your
[01:02:45] truck at 25 years. Um, but the
[01:02:47] recommendation from NFPA1 1900 annexa is
[01:02:50] you remove it from frontline service at
[01:02:52] 15 years and then at 25 years you retire
[01:02:55] it. Um, obviously we have fire
[01:02:58] departments including mine. Uh we have
[01:03:02] trucks that we just retired in 1992. So
[01:03:06] um
[01:03:08] and then I just put in here uh section
[01:03:11] 16 which is the issuance of bonds, notes
[01:03:14] and cert certificates of indebt
[01:03:17] indebtedness. uh the procedure um and
[01:03:20] that just goes over the actual statute
[01:03:24] and laws of issuing the bonds on this um
[01:03:28] the bonds that were issued. I started
[01:03:32] looking into the actual language on
[01:03:34] that. Um so you have that on permanent
[01:03:37] debt and the temporary debt if you look
[01:03:38] in your packet. Um and that lays out the
[01:03:42] bins and I know you guys know a lot of
[01:03:43] this but I'm just going over what I
[01:03:45] >> Yeah, no problem. what I printed out. Um
[01:03:48] and then I had the actual our actual uh
[01:03:52] the firetruck financings and what I did
[01:03:56] uh was a lot of work on understanding
[01:04:00] how this gets made and then also um my
[01:04:05] understanding and the the way that this
[01:04:08] the debt exclusion works is it's not
[01:04:10] like an override where it's just a set
[01:04:13] amount flat rate every year. it
[01:04:17] fluctuates with what the debt schedule
[01:04:20] is. Um, and the first two years with the
[01:04:24] I know we've talked a lot about the
[01:04:25] interest only.
[01:04:26] >> Uh, the way that those are laid out and
[01:04:28] the way those are set up by the statute,
[01:04:32] by the law is it gives the town a little
[01:04:35] bit of a cushion to build up to
[01:04:38] basically the full um, principal and
[01:04:41] interest payment. I know there's some
[01:04:44] debate on whether that's good or bad. Um
[01:04:49] I think right now it's what we kind of
[01:04:54] have to do with the first two years just
[01:04:56] being where we are financially um and
[01:04:58] how this is laid out. I think the best
[01:05:01] course of action would be
[01:05:04] to follow this, but also
[01:05:07] if some of the things that are coming
[01:05:09] with the gravel sale and some of the
[01:05:11] stuff that's happening, uh, potentially
[01:05:14] the solar lease. Um, I know Justine had
[01:05:16] mentioned that we're going to have some
[01:05:18] debt paid off in a couple of years. I
[01:05:21] think then we start throwing money at
[01:05:23] the overall principle um in interest and
[01:05:26] get this paid off before the 15 years.
[01:05:29] But I just wanted to point that this is
[01:05:32] what was made by the financial advisor
[01:05:36] and the bond attorneys. Um
[01:05:39] so this didn't just come out of this
[01:05:42] building basically. Um, and then I made,
[01:05:45] if you look on the back half of your
[01:05:48] sheet, I just made a rough estimate, um,
[01:05:52] based on the FY26 total assessed value
[01:05:55] of all of our, uh, property tax coming
[01:05:58] in. Um, and this is the impact per
[01:06:02] thousand
[01:06:03] uh, based on this number and this and
[01:06:07] and this is the FY26 number. So, this
[01:06:10] can increase over the years. Um,
[01:06:15] and this is just I I ran this by the
[01:06:17] assessor just to make sure that what I
[01:06:19] had was correct. Um, and she told me it
[01:06:21] was. So that's what is on the the very
[01:06:24] end of your your packet.
[01:06:27] >> Okay.
[01:06:28] >> So that's that's all I have with.
[01:06:31] >> Thank you, Zach.
[01:06:33] >> Thank you, Zach, for putting this
[01:06:34] together. Um, question to the chair.
[01:06:37] >> Yes. Um, well, we have a town policy
[01:06:41] that we adopted and I don't have the
[01:06:43] exact date in front of me, so forgive
[01:06:44] me.
[01:06:45] >> I have it right here.
[01:06:46] >> Okay. From BLS,
[01:06:48] >> 2017.
[01:06:48] >> 2017. And it says we're not going to
[01:06:51] finance stuff longer than 10 years with
[01:06:53] the exception of like the sewer project.
[01:06:55] It listed out, it's spelled out. So,
[01:06:58] those policies was adopted by this
[01:07:00] board. So, Mr. Chair, why is the why is
[01:07:05] that not being followed? Well, that it
[01:07:08] doesn't necessarily lay out
[01:07:11] >> it says it says right in here because I
[01:07:14] read this as well and I saw that 10-year
[01:07:16] number. Um, but it says if I could find
[01:07:19] and
[01:07:20] >> it says the 50% mark has to be hit, but
[01:07:22] it it's very clearly saying it can't be
[01:07:25] longer than 10 years with the exception
[01:07:26] of and it lists the items.
[01:07:30] So, I'm just wondering, Mr. chair if um
[01:07:34] the financing is actually locked into
[01:07:37] place
[01:07:37] >> because we have we have one year
[01:07:40] interest only right now and then
[01:07:44] according according to this schedule
[01:07:46] it's technically almost 3 years it goes
[01:07:47] out to 2028 without any it's interest
[01:07:50] only no principle okay on the
[01:07:54] >> on this
[01:07:56] right here okay it spells it out so even
[01:08:01] If we did 11 years, we did this year
[01:08:05] interest only and next year started
[01:08:07] applying principle, the town which would
[01:08:10] be more in line with our policies that
[01:08:13] we have adopted. Okay. The town would
[01:08:17] save right now as is the way it goes for
[01:08:20] this. We're paying 35 $355,000
[01:08:24] and278 bucks in interest only for the
[01:08:28] cost of the firet truck which puts the
[01:08:30] total price of the fire truck with the
[01:08:32] cost of the insurance is1,225,578.
[01:08:38] So the interest we're paying is 41% of
[01:08:41] the original cost of the truck. Okay.
[01:08:44] But if we do we start applying principal
[01:08:48] next year and we do 11year
[01:08:51] we can we can pay and reduce that
[01:08:54] interest rate down to 250,000 to 260,000
[01:08:58] we save roughly $100,000
[01:09:01] just by paying the principal early
[01:09:05] >> that so I found a section and it says
[01:09:08] the term of any debt shall not exceed
[01:09:10] the expected useful life of the capital
[01:09:13] asset being financed and in no case
[01:09:14] shall it exceed the maximum allowed by
[01:09:16] law. Uh the town will limit bond
[01:09:19] maturities to no more than 10 years
[01:09:20] except for major buildings, sewer and
[01:09:22] storm water facility projects, land
[01:09:24] acquisitions, and other purposes in
[01:09:26] accordance with the useful life
[01:09:28] borrowing limit guidelines published by
[01:09:30] the DLS. So that's how I got to
[01:09:37] this right here is the borrowing within
[01:09:40] limit. And then so I know what you're
[01:09:43] saying,
[01:09:44] >> but I think that that's how
[01:09:46] >> I don't think any
[01:09:48] >> malfeence was done with this.
[01:09:50] >> It's not about that. It's
[01:09:52] >> using tax dollars wisely.
[01:09:53] >> I understand that and I'm not I'm not
[01:09:55] disagreeing with you that we need to pay
[01:09:57] this off before the 15 years. Um and
[01:10:01] >> because I don't think that $355,000 in
[01:10:05] just interest alone is ridiculous over
[01:10:08] 15 years. So we are in agreement in the
[01:10:12] fact that this should be paid off within
[01:10:15] in a quicker time.
[01:10:16] >> I'm saying 11 years. We do the interest
[01:10:18] only payment this year and then next
[01:10:21] year start applying principle.
[01:10:22] >> Yeah.
[01:10:23] >> I mean because then that's a financed 11
[01:10:26] years and we save 100,000 between 90,000
[01:10:29] and 100,000.
[01:10:31] >> But I think we do that on top of the the
[01:10:34] minimum payment that is on here. So we I
[01:10:36] think the way to do that is we take what
[01:10:40] the payment would be in 2029, right?
[01:10:43] Which would be $80,000 and then if we
[01:10:46] have extra money, we throw it on top of
[01:10:48] that.
[01:10:49] >> Yeah. Well, I'm saying next year, which
[01:10:51] not necessarily 2027, but let's say
[01:10:53] 2028.
[01:10:54] >> Yeah. So I So I think
[01:10:56] >> 28 we start applying principal.
[01:10:57] >> I think we take
[01:10:58] >> Hold on. One person at a time.
[01:11:00] >> Sorry. I think we I think we take that
[01:11:02] $80,000 payment and this is what I was
[01:11:04] trying to say. I think we take the
[01:11:05] $80,000 payment that we're going to make
[01:11:07] in 2029 and we start making that if we
[01:11:09] can in 2028.
[01:11:11] >> That's what I that's what I was trying
[01:11:12] to try to tell you
[01:11:14] >> because I think you two are pretty much
[01:11:16] in agreement.
[01:11:17] >> We're somewhat we're getting there.
[01:11:18] We're we're way there. We are.
[01:11:20] >> But what happens here also by with this
[01:11:23] schedule with interest only and no
[01:11:26] principal.
[01:11:27] >> What we're really doing is applying the
[01:11:29] future cost to the future taxpayer. Like
[01:11:32] people right now aren't really
[01:11:34] contributing to the cost of this fire
[01:11:36] truck. We're putting the repayment
[01:11:38] schedule down the road for somebody else
[01:11:40] to basically take up.
[01:11:44] And if we're going to use one-time
[01:11:46] revenue as well as far to fund an
[01:11:49] operating budget, we haven't determined
[01:11:50] that. But if we are and then we start
[01:11:53] doing this, we're going to we're going
[01:11:54] to set ourselves up for real hard
[01:11:56] financial times or we you know we make
[01:11:59] some tough decisions and go forward make
[01:12:02] and follow town policy. It's all I'm
[01:12:04] saying like think about it. you had a
[01:12:07] question or
[01:12:07] >> I do. In the past, this town has had um
[01:12:10] a lot of loans with where they've paid
[01:12:12] interest only and I'd love to hear some
[01:12:14] of the details if you could get them
[01:12:16] tonight. Regarding the loan that we had
[01:12:18] on this building where they did the
[01:12:20] repointing, my understanding is is that
[01:12:22] we paid more in interest than it cost us
[01:12:25] to have the repointing done on this
[01:12:27] building
[01:12:28] >> because we kicked that can down the road
[01:12:30] year after year after year. To Mr.
[01:12:32] Spencer's point, yeah, that might be
[01:12:34] what we're legally obligated to do, but
[01:12:36] it's the minimum. Why wouldn't we have
[01:12:38] the assessor raise the assessment, bring
[01:12:40] in more money, and pay principal? Just
[01:12:44] saying. It's not like it's going to mess
[01:12:45] with your budget.
[01:12:48] >> Do you want me to answer that, Mr.
[01:12:50] Chair?
[01:12:51] >> If you want.
[01:12:53] >> Um, so, as much as I hate agreeing with
[01:12:55] Mr. Smith, um, he's absolutely right. We
[01:12:58] were paying um more than from 2014 to
[01:13:02] this year, we were paying more in
[01:13:04] interest than we were in principal for
[01:13:05] the repointing of this building. Um we
[01:13:08] were able to pay that loan off this year
[01:13:10] and as you know um take two of our older
[01:13:13] loans from 2015, the wastewater and the
[01:13:17] um police station and created a new
[01:13:21] loan. So, it's old debt, new loan. Um,
[01:13:23] where we were able to create a 5-year
[01:13:24] payment plan, as you know, that we will
[01:13:26] be able to pay off those old loans that
[01:13:28] are over a decade old at this point. Um,
[01:13:31] so this year we were able to come up
[01:13:32] with a schedule. Um, and in 5 years,
[01:13:35] those are going to be gone, but yeah, we
[01:13:37] were paying for more in interest than we
[01:13:39] were in principle for the planning of
[01:13:41] this building since 2014.
[01:13:43] >> Did they did they not have a schedule
[01:13:46] like this?
[01:13:49] I don't want to say they didn't have a
[01:13:50] schedule because I've seen stuff like
[01:13:52] I've seen paperwork um it was just
[01:13:56] carried over. It was just rolled over
[01:13:58] year after year after year. So we were a
[01:14:00] we're not able to anymore.
[01:14:01] >> Like I look at this and this is very
[01:14:03] clearly laid out of what we're going to
[01:14:05] be paying. So I to kind of hit to the
[01:14:07] fifth point. Um
[01:14:11] and I'm not by any means I'm not trying
[01:14:13] to kick the can down the road with this.
[01:14:14] I just am going off of
[01:14:18] I think the town followed the policy and
[01:14:21] the law.
[01:14:24] Do I like that we're paying $355,000
[01:14:27] over 15 years? No. No, I don't. I'm in
[01:14:29] we're we're 100% in agreement with that.
[01:14:31] And I think that we have to do
[01:14:33] everything we can to pay that number
[01:14:34] down. Um,
[01:14:38] yeah. But I just I don't know how we had
[01:14:41] old loans that didn't
[01:14:44] >> Unfortunately, we never serve like we
[01:14:47] didn't service the debt. It was interest
[01:14:48] only unfortunately. And now
[01:14:50] >> we do have a plan. We're going to
[01:14:52] service the debt. Justine's put it
[01:14:54] together. Yeah.
[01:14:54] >> And
[01:14:55] >> we we're dealing with it.
[01:14:57] >> Mr. Chair,
[01:14:57] >> forunately we're dealing with
[01:14:59] >> um I just want to add one more thing. So
[01:15:00] that was kind of my thought process was
[01:15:03] okay, we'll pay off this old stuff in
[01:15:05] the next 5 years and then there'll be
[01:15:07] room in the budget where we can start
[01:15:09] putting money at the fire truck. So that
[01:15:11] was the thought process going in going
[01:15:13] into this because we need to get rid of
[01:15:15] our old stuff.
[01:15:17] >> And in my mind right now we don't have
[01:15:19] the money to pay down the principal.
[01:15:24] >> This is where the principal comes from.
[01:15:26] It comes from a debt override. the
[01:15:28] assessor assigns that number whether
[01:15:30] it's 35,000 or she assigns you know
[01:15:34] 70,000 so 35 goes to principal that it
[01:15:37] it goes above and beyond it's not
[01:15:39] affecting the 2 and 12% cuz it's a debt
[01:15:42] exclusion
[01:15:42] >> right so it's a matter of the assessor
[01:15:46] assigning a bit more to every property
[01:15:49] to cover the principal end
[01:15:53] >> sorry
[01:15:54] >> you had
[01:15:54] >> Thank you
[01:15:56] >> um if I may thank you Um, I agree with
[01:16:00] Mr. Spencer that things were done
[01:16:02] properly. Um, that the the loan was set
[01:16:05] up as authorized the exact terms. It was
[01:16:08] authorized by the town select board. As
[01:16:11] I've said before publicly here, I think
[01:16:13] the treasur and the financial adviser
[01:16:15] did a good job in securing the the
[01:16:18] 20-year amortization over a 15-year
[01:16:20] period. The rates in the first couple
[01:16:23] years were interest only. one year of
[01:16:25] that range, but the interest rates were
[01:16:28] less than 4%. And beyond that, it is 4%.
[01:16:32] At this point, I think it's reasonable
[01:16:33] to compare this to a homeowner with a
[01:16:35] mortgage. If if you're going to buy a
[01:16:38] house with a long useful life and you
[01:16:40] want to pay you want to get a 20 or
[01:16:42] 15year mortgage on it, u you know that
[01:16:45] you're going to pay interest built into
[01:16:48] that at the interest rate that you get
[01:16:49] on your mortgage. As time goes on, if
[01:16:52] you if you if you find that rate to be a
[01:16:55] high rate and you want to repay it,
[01:16:58] that's the best use of your money in the
[01:16:59] future and you save for that purpose,
[01:17:01] you're able to reduce your interest
[01:17:03] payments uh and accelerate your
[01:17:05] principal payments. I offered Mr. Taker
[01:17:07] before a schedule of the exact um impact
[01:17:12] on future payments if the town were to
[01:17:14] do what it was suggested, pay $50,000
[01:17:18] back against this this year. If that was
[01:17:20] done, the payments, the total interest
[01:17:23] payments would be $25,000 over the full
[01:17:26] term. Um, that's based on the the 4%
[01:17:30] rate that's that's built into the into
[01:17:31] the whole deal. Um, I would say that the
[01:17:35] uh the right thing to do is to say we
[01:17:39] the town authorized the borrowing of860
[01:17:44] to turn around and pay 50 of it back now
[01:17:48] to me makes no sense next year. Sure. If
[01:17:51] if we have to do that, if we have the
[01:17:53] money to do that, um, then principal can
[01:17:56] repay it if that's the best place to
[01:17:58] repay it. in this past year, the best
[01:18:00] place to repay it is where Justina and
[01:18:03] the treasurer and the adviser did to
[01:18:05] wipe out that other debt which was at
[01:18:07] more than 4% rates.
[01:18:08] >> Yeah.
[01:18:09] >> So, I think all of that is sound. I and
[01:18:11] and it is done and I don't see why why
[01:18:14] the debate goes on about whether things
[01:18:16] were done retrospectively the way that
[01:18:19] somebody thinks they should in a way
[01:18:22] they shouldn't have been. It's it's it
[01:18:24] was good policy. It's good financial
[01:18:26] management. I think we're in good shape
[01:18:27] by this.
[01:18:28] >> Okay, Bill, you wanted me to say
[01:18:30] something?
[01:18:30] >> I I just want to say, Mr. Chair, um we
[01:18:34] have found policy that was adopted
[01:18:36] adopted by this select board, and I'm
[01:18:38] just wondering why we're not following
[01:18:39] it.
[01:18:39] >> We we are though,
[01:18:41] >> but it says 10 years.
[01:18:42] >> It it says 10 years, but it spells out
[01:18:44] the the other avenues of which that this
[01:18:48] has to be followed. And we followed it
[01:18:50] to the letter in my opinion. And I know
[01:18:53] we might not agree on the financing,
[01:18:55] which is fine, but I don't think that
[01:18:57] the town didn't follow the policy. I
[01:18:59] have the policy in front of me, sir, and
[01:19:01] it's it I I read the policy clearly you
[01:19:03] and I know it says the town will attempt
[01:19:06] to maintain a long-term debt schedule
[01:19:08] such uh that is at least 50% outstanding
[01:19:10] principal will be paid in 10 years. I I
[01:19:12] read that.
[01:19:13] >> However, it also has uh sections two and
[01:19:17] three in here um that say it's going to
[01:19:19] follow the useful life borrowing. So in
[01:19:22] that way it kind of contradicts itself.
[01:19:25] Um and we then follow state law which we
[01:19:30] are
[01:19:30] >> well and it also gives exceptions and it
[01:19:32] says except we will follow this except
[01:19:34] and and it lists out the wastewater
[01:19:37] treatment facility and stuff like that
[01:19:38] in it.
[01:19:40] >> Yeah. And then it also says with the
[01:19:42] useful life with the useful life
[01:19:44] borrowing limit guidelines published by
[01:19:45] the DLS which is this right here. And
[01:19:48] this spells out the assets that you can
[01:19:50] use.
[01:19:51] >> Well, we have a ELS manual for the town
[01:19:55] of Hardware.
[01:19:55] >> Yes.
[01:19:56] >> That calls for
[01:19:57] >> Yeah.
[01:19:57] >> Right in there.
[01:19:58] >> Yeah. Right here.
[01:19:59] >> Right. So, I interpret it a little bit
[01:20:01] different than you. That's all.
[01:20:04] >> Okay.
[01:20:05] >> That's it. [snorts] And like I said, if
[01:20:09] we start applying principal even next
[01:20:11] year, we're going to save potentially
[01:20:13] $100,000
[01:20:14] of taxpayer money. and and we are 100%
[01:20:17] in agreement with that. I mean, as we're
[01:20:19] talking about here tonight,
[01:20:21] >> we could use $100,000.
[01:20:23] >> Yes.
[01:20:24] >> 25.
[01:20:25] >> Okay.
[01:20:26] >> Just saying.
[01:20:27] >> And as I found out at the MMA uh rural
[01:20:32] and western Massachusetts meeting, we
[01:20:34] are not unique in our situation. I was
[01:20:37] talking to a select woman from
[01:20:40] Granville. They're they have a
[01:20:43] 40-year-old fire truck that they just
[01:20:45] replaced. They're going through this
[01:20:47] very same
[01:20:49] >> exercise.
[01:20:50] >> Exactly.
[01:20:51] >> So, I just I read an article today that
[01:20:55] local receipts are down substantially,
[01:20:58] which is causing all a lot of the issues
[01:21:00] that we're seeing. And with the millions
[01:21:04] upon millions upon millions budget that
[01:21:06] is proposed for the state of
[01:21:08] Massachusetts right now, there's only
[01:21:09] been a 4.3% increase, which is
[01:21:11] >> actually billions. It's 60
[01:21:13] >> billions. There you go. Yes.
[01:21:14] >> Billion.
[01:21:15] >> So it's
[01:21:17] billion. [laughter]
[01:21:20] >> With a B. So that being said,
[01:21:25] I think we're kind of in agreement on in
[01:21:28] in
[01:21:29] we can work together on figure it out.
[01:21:32] >> Uh anything further?
[01:21:36] >> Then I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
[01:21:39] >> I'll make the motion to adjurnn.
[01:21:41] >> Okay. Second.
[01:21:42] >> Okay. All those in favor? I I
[01:21:45] >> Very good. Thank you, gentlemen.
[01:21:58] Yeah, you'll have your next [laughter]
[01:22:03] >> Okay. Do