Thumbnail for Part 2 Hardwick, MA Board of Selectmen Meeting 10/24/22

Hardwick Board of Selectmen Deliberates Equine Center Race Location Approval

Original title: Part 2 Hardwick, MA Board of Selectmen Meeting 10/24/22

These meeting notes are AI-generated and unofficial. They are provided for convenience and are not official Town records or approved municipal minutes. Verify all details using the source video and official Town documents.

Meeting details

Date

October 25, 2022

Duration

48m

Decisions

1 recorded

Action Items

3 assigned

Summary

The Hardwick Board of Selectmen discussed the proposed Commonwealth Equine and Agricultural Center LLC Race location, focusing on the process for local approval under Mass General Law chapter 128a section 13A. Board members expressed the difficulty of the decision and the desire to allow town residents a voice, noting that a "Yes" vote from the board is required to trigger the citizen petition process for a town-wide vote. Concerns were raised about the clarity of petition timelines and the impact of the Gaming Commission's upcoming November 15th vote. After extensive discussion and public input, the board decided to defer its vote until November 1st, following the Gaming Commission's hearing on October 31st, to gather more information and clarify procedural ambiguities.

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Discussion Highlights

The Board's vote on the proposal is a prerequisite for the Gaming Commission's licensing process.
A "Yes" vote from the Board of Selectmen is required to enable residents to petition for a town-wide special election on the proposal (requiring 12% of registered voters).
If a citizen petition is filed by November 15th (the Gaming Commission's vote date), the town's approval is considered a "non-vote," halting the application's progress.
The statutory language regarding petition timelines (submission, certification, and triggering a special election) is unclear, causing procedural ambiguities.
Board members acknowledged the significant responsibility of their vote and the diverse opinions within the community, including concerns about potential changes to the town's character and financial needs.
Public comments highlighted the desire for a town-wide vote, frustration with the complex process, and the potential impact of a large-scale racing facility on the town.
Town Counsel clarified that Chapter 128a Section 13A is the sole legal mechanism for the board to approve a racetrack location, and a public referendum would be non-binding.

Transcript (7,087 words)

Lightly cleaned for readability. Each timestamp opens the video at that point.

00:00:00
7 15 we're gonna rain the select wins meeting the gavel Ry please
00:00:18
So at this point the board is going to pick up our agenda item 7 15 PM discussion interval on Commonwealth equine and Agricultural Center LLC Race location we're still at the Mass General lab chapter 128a section 13A and I would
00:00:37
Sort of said some ask ask for some rules the board is going to have some discuss how we want to proceed if we want to proceed tonight so I would just ask that that that everyone keep any comments or any uh concerns that you have
00:00:55
If there is time and if the board is willing we'll take comments or questions but really the intent is for the board to discuss and possibly vote on The Proposal that's in front of us I will tell you so as mentioned
00:01:14
On the night of the gaming commission hearing there were questions relative to 13 and some questions at the gaming commission went back to try to clarify one of the concerns or questions that was raised was raised by the Town Clerk and the timing of a petition so
00:01:33
Sort of to talk about what the options what we heard from of the gaming commission so the options before the board are vote no the board can vote Yes if the board votes
00:01:53
As mentioned in the gaming commission here and also in several public forums and 12 of the registered voters can get a petition it's unclear whether that goes to we're still trying to clarify whether that goes to the board or the town clerk who it gets submitted to
00:02:11

[00:00:00] 7 15 we're gonna rain the select wins [00:00:02] meeting [00:00:06] the gavel [00:00:09] Ry please [00:00:18] so at this point the board is going to [00:00:21] pick up our agenda item 7 15 PM [00:00:25] discussion interval on Commonwealth [00:00:27] equine and Agricultural Center LLC Race [00:00:29] location we're still at the Mass General [00:00:31] lab chapter 128a section 13A and I would [00:00:36] um [00:00:37] sort of said some ask ask for some rules [00:00:40] the board is going to [00:00:42] have some discuss [00:00:45] how we want to proceed if we want to [00:00:46] proceed tonight so I would just ask that [00:00:48] that [00:00:49] um that everyone keep any comments or [00:00:52] any uh concerns that you have [00:00:55] um if there is time and if the board is [00:00:57] willing we'll take comments or questions [00:00:58] but really the intent is for the board [00:01:01] to discuss and possibly vote on The [00:01:05] Proposal that's in front of us [00:01:08] um I will tell you um [00:01:10] so as mentioned [00:01:14] on the night of the gaming commission [00:01:16] hearing there were questions relative to [00:01:18] 13 [00:01:19] and some questions at the gaming [00:01:21] commission went back to [00:01:23] um try to clarify one of the concerns or [00:01:27] questions that was raised was raised by [00:01:29] the Town Clerk and the timing of a [00:01:31] petition so [00:01:33] um sort of to talk about what the [00:01:34] options [00:01:36] what we heard from [00:01:39] of the gaming commission so the options [00:01:43] before the board are vote no [00:01:46] um uh the board can vote Yes [00:01:49] if the board votes [00:01:52] um [00:01:53] as mentioned in the gaming commission [00:01:55] here and also in several public forums [00:01:59] um and 12 of the registered voters can [00:02:01] get a petition [00:02:03] it's unclear whether that goes to we're [00:02:05] still trying to clarify whether that [00:02:07] goes to the board or the town clerk who [00:02:09] it gets submitted to [00:02:11] um and I believe within 45 days after [00:02:15] receipt of that [00:02:16] whatever that receipt date is which we [00:02:19] need to clarify the board of selectman [00:02:22] need to call a special election [00:02:24] uh actually I know before that sorry [00:02:27] um it comes back to the board to [00:02:28] reconsider if we reconsider our opinion [00:02:31] um if that doesn't happen [00:02:33] um then it goes to special election [00:02:37] my [00:02:38] pretty clear on that Ryan okay [00:02:41] um [00:02:42] so that's one option and no is another [00:02:45] option [00:02:47] so [00:02:48] uh I received the call uh [00:02:51] probably about [00:02:53] from Caitlyn was Deputy Council [00:02:55] programming commission and um [00:02:58] to clarify and again [00:03:01] just you know it's been mentioned [00:03:03] several times we're not necessarily [00:03:04] anyone's timeline but our own but it's [00:03:06] good for us to have all the facts to [00:03:08] understand [00:03:10] um what consequences [00:03:13] um or considerations [00:03:16] so what I heard was that that um if [00:03:19] if Mission process [00:03:20] or 15 day happens [00:03:23] um that um and again [00:03:25] sort of her comments were prophesied by [00:03:27] it also leads to go through and you know [00:03:30] um opinion of the other gaming [00:03:32] commission members but it's believed [00:03:34] that [00:03:36] to be a non-vote so let's run the fact I [00:03:39] don't know the board decides to vote yet [00:03:42] uh 12 of the voters [00:03:45] um registered voters get the petitioned [00:03:46] in it comes to the board for the [00:03:49] reconsideration we still say yes [00:03:52] um [00:03:52] then it goes especially [00:03:55] what happens if [00:03:56] comes in what I'm understanding and [00:03:59] she's going to confirm comes in before [00:04:01] November 15th which is the gaming [00:04:03] commissions uh boat date then it's [00:04:05] considered a non-hope by the town or by [00:04:09] the selection and in the town in that [00:04:12] and that doesn't continue [00:04:15] so um [00:04:18] we've heard at least I'll sort of say a [00:04:21] couple comments and then Rob and Kelly [00:04:23] um you know can say anything that they'd [00:04:25] like to say as well [00:04:27] um so we've heard loud and clear that [00:04:30] three of us should be voting on us I [00:04:32] think none of us disagree [00:04:35] um we have listened in public forums we [00:04:37] have listened [00:04:39] um [00:04:40] we've gotten numerous Ness we've talked [00:04:42] to people we've gotten numerous emails [00:04:45] from outside our community uh both for [00:04:49] and against [00:04:50] um and it became sort of crystal clear [00:04:52] to me that [00:04:53] you know the three of us really it's a [00:04:55] lot of responsibility for the three of [00:04:56] us to vote on this [00:04:58] um it would be great if we could just [00:05:00] over the town to vote on us the only way [00:05:03] that we can do that is if we vote Yes [00:05:06] so understand that of the ability you [00:05:10] know of our ability [00:05:13] um [00:05:13] you know we have no and it's the [00:05:15] proposal dies here [00:05:17] um if we vote Yes it gives townspeople [00:05:20] I'm not saying I agree one way or the [00:05:22] other [00:05:23] um I'm just trying to lay out [00:05:25] of what's before us and what we have to [00:05:27] think about [00:05:32] thank you Joe [00:05:35] um I actually put some of my thoughts [00:05:37] together just so I wouldn't um forget [00:05:39] them yes [00:05:42] just gonna read through this I have so [00:05:45] many thoughts about [00:05:52] thank you [00:06:03] can everybody hear me okay [00:06:06] there's so many facts about this whole [00:06:07] proposal I found back and forth on how I [00:06:10] feel I've listened to everyone that has [00:06:12] reached out I've even met up with some [00:06:14] of you I've actually stopped people that [00:06:16] I saw [00:06:17] something [00:06:19] this is very very heavy [00:06:21] I do want to say thank you to all of [00:06:23] those that did reach out and I really [00:06:24] did enjoy talk [00:06:27] s when I know everything happens some [00:06:28] time ago [00:06:29] I thought to myself this sounds lovely [00:06:32] this could be great like how nice [00:06:35] I said that [00:06:37] I also said that to them be prepared and [00:06:40] I mean really prepared [00:06:43] I said that the folks take part of it [00:06:45] pretty seriously we don't like change [00:06:48] I meant that too [00:06:50] I moved here about 20 years ago so [00:06:52] instead is coming to town [00:06:54] I am volunteered I've been a part of [00:06:56] this town and community community in [00:06:58] some ways before finance committee [00:07:00] Broadband community [00:07:03] volunteering at the fair helping Richard [00:07:05] just to go to the field [00:07:07] I brought back the poinsettias to the [00:07:10] seniors who doesn't love that [00:07:14] a lot so to sit here if they hear things [00:07:17] like we must be taking bribes [00:07:21] candidates I have now run unopposed two [00:07:24] times because nobody has even pulled [00:07:27] papers [00:07:30] as well we are all humans just like [00:07:32] everyone said [00:07:33] a Auditorium or gymnasium [00:07:36] we have sat we've listened to all of you [00:07:38] we don't judge everybody is entitled to [00:07:41] their opinion [00:07:42] I would just ask [00:07:44] we know that this is a big deal I know [00:07:47] that this is a big deal [00:07:49] and also let me say that the [00:07:51] no way shape or form has been pushy [00:07:54] there have been no bribes nobody's [00:07:56] bullying me no one's fooling any of us [00:07:58] just want that to be said too [00:08:01] so I have read [00:08:02] listen listen here are some things [00:08:06] I do think that this would be an [00:08:08] enormous undertaking [00:08:11] I do think that if we go [00:08:13] if we control things that it could be a [00:08:15] positive effect [00:08:16] s [00:08:21] once again [00:08:23] I care about your concerns [00:08:27] I was actually visiting my daughter at [00:08:29] Greenville Center New York for those of [00:08:32] you who don't know that it's about five [00:08:35] seconds [00:08:37] and I went and I droved because I was [00:08:39] right there why not [00:08:41] I saw [00:08:44] because it was amazing I could visualize [00:08:47] the horses and the races [00:08:49] the people dressing up my daughter even [00:08:51] said how she wants to you know get all [00:08:53] their fancy hats and grow so we can [00:08:56] and I thought that was could be really [00:08:59] amazing [00:09:00] what I don't know is if I could [00:09:03] imagine I'll be honest [00:09:05] again if you think it's a change [00:09:09] and I know that's not what they're [00:09:10] proposing now [00:09:13] so that being said I've heard some [00:09:16] suggestions [00:09:17] we should all Buy [00:09:19] we should all chip in [00:09:20] that sure I'll bring my weed back around [00:09:22] Tuesdays at three [00:09:24] Beast club and Land Trust survive [00:09:27] and we should all farm [00:09:29] these things aren't really realistic [00:09:32] what we need [00:09:34] is for more people to be involved [00:09:37] I met with some of you that so this [00:09:40] and I really hope so a financial status [00:09:43] at this town is what is bleak our [00:09:45] buildings are falling apart [00:09:47] Friday nights incident Friday mornings [00:09:50] incident with the town hall it's just a [00:09:52] huge [00:09:53] indication of that [00:09:56] we do need change and growth so how [00:10:00] I'm asking you all [00:10:02] have I really hope that people put some [00:10:04] substance behind their words that they [00:10:06] can say these past couple of weeks [00:10:09] thank you [00:10:14] that's a tough one to follow [00:10:17] um I'm not a big speaker so it's going [00:10:21] to kind of a brief [00:10:23] I'm sorry I'm not a big speaker so I'll [00:10:27] be kind of brief on this uh I do [00:10:30] understand everything that Kelly has [00:10:32] just said [00:10:33] I've heard the same things kind of got [00:10:35] the same the same feeling [00:10:38] I definitely when I when it reads on the [00:10:41] emails that come to us feel [00:10:44] like stuff that people think is being [00:10:46] asked for it's completely different [00:10:49] than what it's actually been posed this [00:10:51] time [00:10:52] uh [00:10:53] [Music] [00:10:55] there's a huge difference between [00:10:59] Casino [00:11:01] I [00:11:04] really feel like everybody should [00:11:06] understand that [00:11:10] the one thing I I will say is that [00:11:13] everyone [00:11:14] wants to vote [00:11:16] that [00:11:17] General [00:11:18] guys [00:11:21] I really think [00:11:25] [Music] [00:11:26] um [00:11:30] I will admit I'm kind of leaning that [00:11:33] way solely for that fact that [00:11:36] that we would have to vote Yes to give [00:11:38] everybody the chance to vote if you guys [00:11:41] got enough signatures [00:11:42] to do so which I think you would [00:11:46] um [00:11:47] my only question to the board members is [00:11:50] before we take the vote and we want to [00:11:52] wait until after the tournament [00:11:55] to see if they [00:12:00] any of these questions at the residence [00:12:02] of town had [00:12:04] because these hearings on the 31st as [00:12:06] you already speak [00:12:14] I don't know [00:12:19] I honestly don't think that seven days [00:12:21] is gonna make a difference if we wait [00:12:24] um we seem to meet multiple times a week [00:12:26] anyways so [00:12:31] information and [00:12:36] um and I I'll just tell a little story I [00:12:38] had a nice conversation on Friday night [00:12:40] it was quite a while uh I truly respect [00:12:43] the person I was talking to [00:12:45] um as I do everyone here and a couple of [00:12:48] things oh my I think I'll sort of echo [00:12:51] what Kelly was saying you know the [00:12:53] statement was made will we sort of knew [00:12:55] how you were going to vote to begin with [00:12:57] well I'm not not really sure how anyone [00:13:00] would know that because I didn't even [00:13:01] know that I still have concerns in my in [00:13:04] my mind just as Rob it's unfortunate for [00:13:07] us that the only way we can get this to [00:13:10] a town voice to go yes that that's [00:13:12] really unfortunate because [00:13:14] um there are a lot of people we've heard [00:13:16] from and also a lot of people haven't [00:13:17] heard from [00:13:18] that are still afraid to come forward [00:13:21] um and they're you know everyone's voice [00:13:23] matters [00:13:25] um and in the conversation [00:13:27] um you know I I guess if the if the [00:13:30] board decides the ultimate vote of the [00:13:32] board is yes it isn't the fairer [00:13:34] challenge to get the signatures we're [00:13:36] trying to be inclusive and trying to get [00:13:38] everyone to have a voice in this [00:13:41] um and so please I hope you don't see it [00:13:43] that way that's at least from my [00:13:45] perspective [00:13:47] um that wouldn't be the intent behind it [00:13:50] um [00:13:51] I think I will Echo what Kelly was [00:13:54] saying we've been very not I and the [00:13:57] fellow board members have been very [00:13:59] non-judgmental and what [00:14:01] um has come across as we're listening [00:14:03] we're paying attention I sort of feel [00:14:06] our job sitting up here is to look at [00:14:08] all sides to look at what the applicants [00:14:10] provided and what they're willing to do [00:14:13] and then look at what we're hearing from [00:14:15] the townspeople [00:14:17] um and make a decision based on that [00:14:20] honestly that's the board's decision or [00:14:24] a way that we want to move and wait till [00:14:26] October I [00:14:29] think either but I think the more [00:14:30] information that we have perhaps there's [00:14:33] you know [00:14:34] um [00:14:36] we can maybe make a different decision I [00:14:39] can tell you very similar to calorie [00:14:41] um and talking to people and hearing [00:14:43] their concerns new voiced things that [00:14:45] maybe I sort of thought about but you [00:14:47] brought a different perspective to it so [00:14:50] I think [00:14:51] um I agree with Rod that maybe a course [00:14:53] of action would be to let the gaming [00:14:55] commission have been doing [00:14:57] and [00:14:58] um [00:14:59] it's going to be live streamed I believe [00:15:01] um it's going to be October 31st at 1 [00:15:03] 30. [00:15:05] um we could certainly reconvene um [00:15:08] another selections meeting after that [00:15:10] and um once we have all of that [00:15:13] information perhaps uh we might deal [00:15:17] with we're in a better situation [00:15:26] I would be fine with that that's what [00:15:28] you know you guys want to choose [00:15:34] thank you [00:15:42] I know people [00:15:44] have a decision tonight but I mean [00:15:47] I feel like I watched the a little bit [00:15:50] of that [00:15:51] hearing the other day yeah [00:15:53] and [00:15:55] there were some questions that were [00:15:56] asked that some of these people had that [00:15:58] I feel like they need to be answered [00:16:00] so if [00:16:02] we do move forward and [00:16:05] depending on pilot downloads everybody [00:16:07] knows exactly where the commission was [00:16:10] coming from too because some of those [00:16:12] questions were related to how the state [00:16:14] is going to act [00:16:16] with the town [00:16:18] they didn't really answer any of those [00:16:19] questions so [00:16:23] I would say later [00:16:28] do we want to set a meeting I'm going to [00:16:32] make a motion and I'll make it the [00:16:34] following Tuesday November 1st [00:16:45] so this looks I think where [00:16:48] um I guess as a Morgan ultimately decide [00:16:50] the way we're going to decide on this [00:16:51] but [00:16:52] um [00:16:55] so I guess I'll ask the question is um [00:16:58] oh that's a question of you all [00:17:00] um [00:17:02] you're not on if we delay I know you all [00:17:06] expected to vote here but we're trying [00:17:07] to be extra cautious and at the advice [00:17:10] of [00:17:12] um being transparent we put it on the [00:17:13] agenda if we delay until after making [00:17:16] our decision until after the gaming [00:17:19] commission hearing on October 31st is [00:17:22] that going to fit with everyone's [00:17:23] expectations [00:17:28] yeah [00:17:30] what did you say [00:17:32] does it affected [00:17:42] it's based on when we vote so that's [00:17:45] when the decision that's when that [00:17:46] happened [00:17:48] if we don't vote on anything tonight the [00:17:50] process doesn't start it has to start [00:17:51] when the board votes ultimately when [00:17:53] that is [00:18:03] foreign [00:18:07] so [00:18:13] um the question was asked about the [00:18:14] November 15th deadline and the timing [00:18:17] and what you know sort of I guess in [00:18:19] summarizing with the significance of [00:18:20] that that gaming commission's timeline [00:18:24] so if the board [00:18:26] um the gaming commission cannot [00:18:28] um give an affirmative uh ruling on the [00:18:32] applicants [00:18:33] um [00:18:35] paperwork or application [00:18:38] um if the town hasn't voted by that or [00:18:41] if it's a no vote it doesn't go forward [00:18:43] in front of the gaming Commission [00:18:45] it's already in front of them they can't [00:18:48] or their final decision is not to [00:18:50] advance the application if we both know [00:18:55] [Music] [00:18:59] so one of the things we need to clarify [00:19:02] um again this was just this evening a [00:19:04] bit ago [00:19:06] um is if the time frame of the petition [00:19:11] when it needs to come in [00:19:13] um and so I I guess if for anything we [00:19:17] could have additional time [00:19:19] um an additional week to clarify and [00:19:21] firm up that the statute and at the town [00:19:23] clerk wants to come up and speak and [00:19:25] just give us but the staff [00:19:27] is that um is very unclear on the time [00:19:30] frame of things so [00:19:32] um what we did hear from the gaming [00:19:35] Commission [00:19:36] a council is that [00:19:38] um if we voted tonight and the [00:19:42] townspeople the residents more than 12 [00:19:44] of the registered voters had the [00:19:46] petition and we had it in Hand by [00:19:49] November 15th it's considered a non-vote [00:19:52] what that means is then the application [00:19:55] would not move forward [00:19:57] um what I don't know and what I'm not [00:19:58] I'm not clear on and perhaps we can [00:20:00] clarify there's a 20-day time frame that [00:20:04] that's mentioned [00:20:06] um in talking to the town clerk the [00:20:08] statute isn't very specific but if we [00:20:10] refer to [00:20:12] the statutes relative to cities [00:20:15] um I believe it is a 20-day time frame [00:20:17] Ryan do you want to quickly just mention [00:20:19] that [00:20:22] I appreciate it [00:20:26] is here [00:20:38] um [00:20:39] three section 42 deals with cities [00:20:42] you read that language [00:20:44] it does specify ing there that if [00:20:47] there's a decision it's made by the city [00:20:48] council that 12 percent [00:20:55] there's very similar language [00:20:57] the you know the legislature and that [00:20:59] and that [00:21:02] have people some form of a requests they [00:21:04] don't like what their officials has done [00:21:07] I spelled it out now for whatever reason [00:21:10] 128 a13a you know they just basically [00:21:13] say 12 [00:21:15] years of the residents or citizens [00:21:19] it doesn't say anything about timelines [00:21:21] for certifying [00:21:22] for me submit [00:21:24] admit that Julie was mentioned and I [00:21:25] apologize if I'm understanding I feel [00:21:27] like my back to people [00:21:31] uh you know the 45 days is [00:21:35] 45 days from when I receive it [00:21:38] 45 days from when I certified [00:21:40] registrars [00:21:42] 45 days from when [00:21:44] the board selectman you know or is it [00:21:47] after they reconsider do they have [00:21:48] consider and then the clock starts so [00:21:50] these are questions that our Council has [00:21:53] been working [00:21:56] there's extra information [00:21:57] still it's [00:21:59] online to [00:22:03] to really [00:22:04] I've never happened [00:22:07] language [00:22:08] they left [00:22:11] just like early [00:22:14] to do in person but opt out to [00:22:16] so you know six and one half plus in the [00:22:18] other but that [00:22:19] my understanding that [00:22:21] received from Michelle Tessa [00:22:25] legal counsel the Secretary of State's [00:22:27] office [00:22:31] true collaborate 43 42 into [00:22:38] release of the board for that to decide [00:22:40] my role is [00:22:42] a certifier [00:22:46] too much [00:22:56] yeah so [00:22:58] um [00:23:00] so those are I guess what I would say [00:23:02] then is um I think things we need to [00:23:05] clarify for our own results again you [00:23:07] know keeping in mind this is our [00:23:09] timeline [00:23:10] not their timeline [00:23:12] um [00:23:12] that we need some more clarity [00:23:14] surrounding that we also need more [00:23:16] clarity surrounding [00:23:19] um the timing of the petition and if it [00:23:21] gets submitted [00:23:22] um [00:23:23] you know if it doesn't get submitted [00:23:25] before [00:23:26] if the [00:23:28] um the vote from the board is yes the [00:23:31] patient doesn't get submitted before the [00:23:33] 15th what the impact is on the gaming [00:23:35] compression vote so I don't have Clarity [00:23:37] on that so I think given the questions [00:23:40] that we have surrounding the process and [00:23:42] what the impact of our vote one way or [00:23:45] the other is I agree with you rob that I [00:23:48] think we should um [00:23:51] listen to The Gaming Commission uh [00:23:53] hearing on the 31st and then I believe I [00:23:57] heard you say November 1st we convene a [00:24:00] selectman's meeting [00:24:05] without being enough time after the [00:24:07] gaming position hearing to resolve any [00:24:09] questions the other is the other [00:24:11] um item is we don't have the [00:24:14] um as a result of Friday's events we do [00:24:16] not have the questions back from David [00:24:19] from mdar there were questions that you [00:24:20] put in the chat that we have had the [00:24:23] ability to get the answers to we're [00:24:26] working on those so those will go up [00:24:28] um and be posted as soon as we have [00:24:30] those they're still outstanding also [00:24:35] before we actually take a vote I will [00:24:38] take a couple questions or a couple [00:24:39] comments [00:24:42] sure [00:24:48] thank you very much it certainly it is [00:24:50] confusing but there's a couple questions [00:24:52] I [00:24:53] I have one is that the petition or the [00:24:57] 13-day approval uh if given [00:25:02] that's what triggers the citizens right [00:25:06] but they're all clear on that and you [00:25:08] would learn today it's very helpful to [00:25:09] know in the gaming commission that if [00:25:11] that petition is not [00:25:13] submitted [00:25:14] I think the language is a filed doesn't [00:25:17] say certified or malabaric because if [00:25:19] it's if it's filed by the 15th then that [00:25:24] would [00:25:26] because the suspension of approval and [00:25:30] essentially seems to make kill the deal [00:25:32] at that point [00:25:34] that's what it sounds like right now [00:25:39] approval obviously that stops the [00:25:42] progress now and no petition but you [00:25:44] needed or triggered [00:25:46] the questions have to do with what [00:25:48] happens if you delay it sounds like you [00:25:49] might want to do like you're thinking of [00:25:52] doing one with a delay I don't believe [00:25:55] is going to trigger any petition to [00:25:58] you know it's not going to [00:26:00] trigger a petition because there's no [00:26:02] yes vote [00:26:03] the triggers so that wouldn't even come [00:26:06] in I don't believe [00:26:08] um there will be [00:26:10] you don't know this do you see it but [00:26:11] there will be no problem having far more [00:26:14] than the requisite number of 12 [00:26:16] signatures residents so that will it [00:26:19] will happen but it won't [00:26:20] it can't even be collected [00:26:23] because it's all referenced to a yes [00:26:25] vote on the 13A so that that wouldn't [00:26:27] happen [00:26:28] and then I've got a question [00:26:30] The Advocates who I believe in their [00:26:32] actual application said what seems that [00:26:35] the game gaming commission says is the [00:26:37] case which is that the 13-a approval [00:26:40] by the board is a prerequisite of the [00:26:44] commission [00:26:45] granting a license one of a number of [00:26:47] things yes but it [00:26:50] I think if that is [00:26:52] n't they're not going to say yes to [00:26:55] that wouldn't bother me but I think [00:26:58] [Music] [00:26:59] it doesn't seem like that's what your [00:27:02] thing [00:27:03] then [00:27:04] you know that there'll be another chance [00:27:05] to raise it up in this for this current [00:27:08] round of license [00:27:09] one question [00:27:11] was [00:27:14] if [00:27:15] around work if it doesn't happen now [00:27:18] if the gaming commission doesn't differ [00:27:20] for whatever reason approval [00:27:24] on the 15th [00:27:28] to come back [00:27:30] and try again next year [00:27:33] [Music] [00:27:34] and that's it so that was one question [00:27:37] Obviously good much more time to [00:27:39] consider all aspects of this [00:27:43] and one thing you said Julie I did want [00:27:45] to ask the Town Council this is not a [00:27:47] question that was asked did not answered [00:27:50] um [00:27:51] various times [00:27:54] have votes town wide votes [00:27:58] on horse racing in their Town not [00:28:01] triggered by the 13A [00:28:03] approval but there have been referendums [00:28:05] that were shot down there have been home [00:28:08] rule petitions that were passed [00:28:10] I mean referendums have said no horse [00:28:12] racing there's been home rule petitions [00:28:14] that have said don't do it here and [00:28:16] those things have caused [00:28:18] different [00:28:19] Town boards [00:28:21] to simply not [00:28:24] give a 13-day approval believe that's [00:28:26] pretty much what happened Sturbridge or [00:28:28] that was written by that was driven by a [00:28:31] Zoe [00:28:32] but it's not the only way you could you [00:28:34] could theoretically say let's have it [00:28:36] about a referendum beside that and then [00:28:38] we'll decide [00:28:44] but I [00:28:45] I don't think we I agree we don't have [00:28:47] all we need to know right now [00:28:49] to uh to say yes thank you [00:28:56] yes by the way [00:29:12] so um before you start here so I did [00:29:17] you know the feeling from the audience [00:29:19] and the townspeople here they're really [00:29:22] issues that are um we've already talked [00:29:24] about I just also we don't [00:29:26] we don't bring them up but if there are [00:29:27] new questions that [00:29:29] um [00:29:30] you know that we we need some answers [00:29:33] and the board will follow up on [00:29:36] again we don't give her the meeting [00:29:38] because we are I [00:29:40] think this is we're not voting tonight [00:29:43] um but if you have a question relative [00:29:46] to what we've laid out [00:29:48] hear it but again I don't I don't think [00:29:50] you all want to be here all night and I [00:29:52] don't think we do either so [00:29:53] [Music] [00:29:56] I promise it's relevant [00:29:59] station or anything I've said before [00:30:01] asked before [00:30:03] um my question three three specifically [00:30:06] about [00:30:06] gaming commission and the answers that [00:30:08] you're seeking [00:30:10] um what will [00:30:12] change your position greatly [00:30:19] I guess that's I mean I'm sure you have [00:30:21] some sort of perspective today yes or [00:30:23] yes or no whatever that is [00:30:26] um but it will change between now and [00:30:29] then [00:30:30] like what's the what's the [00:30:31] groundbreaking thing that will change [00:30:33] your mind from from one side to the [00:30:34] other [00:30:36] yeah I think that's like [00:30:38] no I'm not sure I can answer that [00:30:41] because honestly [00:30:43] um I think we're just trying to get as [00:30:44] much information as we can so the [00:30:47] information that I mentioned to you [00:30:48] about that came from Council has not [00:30:51] been has not the rest of the gaming [00:30:53] Commissioners so that is her opinion on [00:30:55] the process we don't necessarily under [00:30:58] stand there may be things that are [00:31:00] brought up in the hearing that we don't [00:31:02] even think about [00:31:04] um there were things as I mentioned to [00:31:05] you but in talking to [00:31:08] you General thought about something or a [00:31:10] general perspective [00:31:11] well it's a different perspective that [00:31:13] came forward and I I would hope [00:31:16] to certainly you know can speak on your [00:31:20] thoughts but I would hope that there be [00:31:21] more information might come out relative [00:31:25] to the process relative to their opinion [00:31:27] maybe the gaming commission doesn't even [00:31:29] approve it so it's not maybe they're [00:31:30] leaning towards an article because of [00:31:32] the concerns that's not [00:31:34] [Music] [00:31:35] so I guess I would say I would be [00:31:37] looking for more information or anything [00:31:39] else that would come out that may help [00:31:42] answer questions there's a lot of [00:31:44] questions that we're mentioning here [00:31:46] yeah just any specific concerns [00:32:01] more or less [00:32:03] so yes [00:32:05] people [00:32:06] what if there is [00:32:17] not a guarantee there is no 100 absolute [00:32:22] signatures will be gathered [00:32:24] tissue will come to fruition but it will [00:32:26] happen [00:32:27] so yes [00:32:29] put it to the pound [00:32:30] is not a guarantee [00:32:32] the major example [00:32:36] well if you don't get enough [00:32:40] and the town of cruising [00:32:42] because you wouldn't get enough [00:32:43] signatures [00:32:45] if more people approved it then the 200 [00:32:49] you know you need 200 240. but you [00:32:52] probably will have [00:32:55] then that means the town approves it by [00:32:57] fall [00:33:00] okay [00:33:03] so [00:33:05] what's [00:33:06] up [00:33:08] okay giving the wrong answer heard you [00:33:11] loud [00:33:12] why would you hire them [00:33:18] we got it wrong clear we're not [00:33:22] so [00:33:23] and I don't mean to sort of [00:33:26] um [00:33:27] I don't think any one of us have alluded [00:33:30] to the fact that we're going to vote one [00:33:31] way or the other [00:33:33] I I my job I feel is to present all of [00:33:37] the facts out so you all understand what [00:33:39] we're thinking about in our mind [00:33:42] um the conversation I mentioned to you [00:33:43] on Friday night I was honest and said I [00:33:47] don't I'm not sure how I'm gonna vote on [00:33:48] this yet [00:33:50] I I guess so in trying to set out the [00:33:53] facts is a way to get everybody to vote [00:33:55] on this have the opportunity [00:33:57] so of course that's attractive because [00:33:59] we want to be [00:34:01] at least for me I want everyone to have [00:34:04] the chance to say it there's a lot of [00:34:06] people we haven't heard from [00:34:09] there's a lot of people and there's a [00:34:11] lot of people we've heard from multiple [00:34:13] times [00:34:14] and we appreciate that but there's also [00:34:18] a lot of people that maybe haven't [00:34:19] voiced their opinion it might be four [00:34:21] and I think there's some validity to [00:34:23] what [00:34:24] Rob mentioned [00:34:26] and certainly again I'll Express it's [00:34:28] not from my perspective if the board [00:34:30] does vote Yes it's not Allen from the [00:34:33] board to get signatures at all so I [00:34:37] I don't think [00:34:39] I would hate for someone to characterize [00:34:41] my comments tonight by saying that I [00:34:43] voted I'm going to vote Yes [00:34:46] because I don't think that I don't think [00:34:47] it's accurate and I think that's [00:34:49] it it's an I didn't just say [00:34:53] I didn't just say [00:34:57] Rob said it [00:34:59] I didn't just say it and I think you [00:35:02] need to be fair and give us the [00:35:04] opportunity to come up with our own [00:35:05] opinions and don't don't think we're [00:35:07] going to vote one way or the other [00:35:09] please don't because I will tell you [00:35:11] however I vote I will be I will be [00:35:13] honest and tell you exactly why [00:35:24] the opportunity [00:35:25] everybody [00:35:29] um [00:35:29] to [00:35:31] it's a process here that's a little bit [00:35:34] messed up if you feel a yes vote will [00:35:39] trigger [00:35:40] uh the process to get where you want to [00:35:43] go [00:35:44] that that's messed up [00:35:47] in other words [00:35:48] we want to know what you need [00:35:51] and and we want to have a chance and so [00:35:55] I think deferring it and instead of [00:36:03] or may not [00:36:06] um [00:36:07] but we all want it to do [00:36:11] and that make any sense [00:36:17] in order to [00:36:19] achieve some other minor goal that's not [00:36:23] related [00:36:27] thank you Julie [00:36:34] tonight [00:36:39] because [00:36:40] most of people who are [00:36:42] coming to several other meetings [00:36:45] most of the people here tonight [00:36:47] probably everything you [00:36:48] use the virtual common [00:36:50] and even though you were sure [00:36:53] many people who see things is not like [00:36:57] you do [00:36:58] we haven't heard that many of those [00:37:00] people speak publicly [00:37:03] I think it's kind of a slap in the face [00:37:06] people hearing Hardware so it works long [00:37:09] and hard [00:37:10] times these issues [00:37:13] and see what this is not a good idea [00:37:16] and to defer it yes it's not [00:37:20] acknowledging [00:37:31] so that would tell me [00:37:35] foreign [00:38:08] so these are for me and I'll have to [00:38:12] go [00:38:14] of course [00:38:37] [Applause] [00:38:42] awesome [00:38:45] so I'm walking [00:38:48] so you know the only reason I put it out [00:38:51] there was to make my jogging so it's [00:38:53] similar to another [00:38:55] name [00:38:58] on the back side of the page there's a [00:39:01] stance [00:39:02] the petition in favor [00:39:05] that could be anything I mean we all [00:39:07] know what the person is [00:39:11] no foreign [00:39:17] clear as mine I highly recommend Paul [00:39:20] read it and you still have questions by [00:39:22] all means give me a call [00:39:27] I've got to defer to the chair [00:39:32] um [00:39:33] so we'll entertain a few more comments [00:39:36] um [00:39:37] and then we're going to make a motion on [00:39:40] whether we're going to differ [00:39:45] um [00:39:50] why does the board have to make any [00:39:53] decision why do you have to further all [00:39:56] can't [00:39:57] just defer and say we are not going to [00:40:00] do a follow-up group take it straight to [00:40:03] the public and we're going to do a [00:40:05] referendum what we're going to do [00:40:07] however it is and just skip the vote [00:40:10] because I agree it could be very [00:40:12] dangerous for you to make the bubble [00:40:16] and is it legal to do that because it [00:40:19] means just then you don't have to worry [00:40:21] about it there's nothing on your back [00:40:23] anymore nobody harasses you to take it [00:40:25] straight to the people [00:40:26] it's not it's a non-binding goal though [00:40:30] to non-bining both so [00:40:33] Alex do you want to speak to this please [00:40:38] thank you madam chair so [00:40:48] the procedure here is laid [00:40:51] out chapter 128 a section 13 . that is [00:40:54] the only [00:40:56] available to improve the location [00:41:00] so [00:41:01] whether or not the board to vote that's [00:41:03] entirely within your discretion but the [00:41:06] only available means of approving the [00:41:09] location of racetrack s [00:41:12] toward your Center [00:41:14] thank you [00:41:23] so the last person we're going to hear [00:41:26] is [00:41:27] um Duty and then we're going to make the [00:41:30] motion [00:41:31] foreign [00:41:39] I try to empathize with you and I I [00:41:42] think he's got a very difficult job and [00:41:44] I do appreciate uh the amount of [00:41:46] pressure you have to deal with [00:41:49] I know that a couple of you mentioned [00:41:51] that initially you felt very positive [00:41:54] and nothing about the proposal [00:41:57] proposed what it might be so hard [00:41:59] uh and I think a lot of us in the world [00:42:03] also share that kind of feeling [00:42:05] initially [00:42:07] but as we've begun to dig and find out [00:42:10] more information and get more answers to [00:42:14] things a lot of answers we still haven't [00:42:16] gotten like why we wouldn't do a [00:42:19] traffic study before our location was [00:42:22] chosen things like that but [00:42:25] you know as time goes on we realize it's [00:42:28] not going to be a couple weekends it's [00:42:31] not going to be a couple race days [00:42:34] it's going to be a state minimum [00:42:36] requirement of 20 great States minimum [00:42:40] and when we begin to consider 20 minimum [00:42:43] race days we talk about crowds of three [00:42:47] to five thousand I mentioned that the [00:42:50] first four days they had 25 [00:42:52] 000 people a day at Saratoga [00:42:56] this is the only race track in New [00:42:59] England [00:43:00] and people will come from wherever to [00:43:04] watch [00:43:05] Boston Metro is four times the size of [00:43:09] Albany metro area [00:43:11] and the potential for draw of more than [00:43:14] five thousand more than 20 days [00:43:18] is to me [00:43:21] undoubtedly going to change this path [00:43:24] thank you [00:43:31] Marcus Hampton [00:43:33] Library Ryan uh you call [00:43:36] the provided the format too and [00:43:39] transition of it [00:43:42] uh consistency [00:43:46] but I'll [00:43:48] position or [00:43:51] um [00:43:53] it was an email address that did not [00:43:59] happening [00:43:59] [Music] [00:44:03] hi thank you I know this is a tough job [00:44:05] but I've got to ask a really tough [00:44:07] question I don't know if this is Ryan [00:44:08] and I don't know if it's to you what's [00:44:10] the three of these individuals [00:44:13] from doing their vote the day before so [00:44:16] we can't get our signatures in [00:44:19] kicking it down the road kicking that [00:44:21] hand on the road even further we all [00:44:25] know [00:44:25] what this is going to do [00:44:28] the town and by the way my [00:44:29] professor [00:44:31] and possible Shield lives right outside [00:44:32] Saratoga my daughter [00:44:35] and you know what they really don't [00:44:37] like balls hitting their cars so let me [00:44:41] tell you I'm sure these people died so [00:44:43] give us the time please vote early if [00:44:46] we're if you're gonna all say yes or all [00:44:49] say no say no say yes but give us enough [00:44:52] time to do our job [00:44:54] who said she goes to town to vote give [00:44:57] us the chance to get it to vote don't [00:45:00] give us two days two days four days take [00:45:01] it down another seven days [00:45:03] it's ridiculous we all need the [00:45:06] opportunity [00:45:07] folks the people that want to occur [00:45:12] they need their opportunity [00:45:14] to do and get that position [00:45:16] please give us that time is there [00:45:18] anything that I'm asking anything that [00:45:20] prevents these folks from voting on the [00:45:23] day before that is [00:45:26] that prevents [00:45:27] preventing our petition [00:45:37] in my opinion went to hold the vote is [00:45:40] entirely [00:45:49] thank you for all of your comments [00:45:52] um and uh questions we will try to [00:45:54] follow up on those questions [00:45:56] uh specifically on the timeline I will [00:45:59] follow for the gaming commission and [00:46:01] just find out [00:46:02] um to get more specifics again it was [00:46:05] within a very short time frame of this [00:46:08] meeting while I was traveling to another [00:46:09] meeting [00:46:12] didn't have the opportunity to ask for a [00:46:14] role follow-up and we will talk about [00:46:16] them so that it is transparent and we [00:46:19] love the answers [00:46:21] okay [00:46:30] um [00:46:31] [Music] [00:46:33] uh [00:46:35] all right [00:46:38] also another [00:46:42] anymore [00:46:48] at 6 30. [00:46:51] [Applause] [00:46:57] so it's more than seconded any other [00:46:59] discussion [00:47:05] I do want to make sure people have time [00:47:07] for so many times [00:47:10] yourself [00:47:12] do you want me yeah I do want to make [00:47:16] sure [00:47:17] so if we're going to postpone this to [00:47:20] next Tuesday [00:47:21] I want them [00:47:25] to be available that's good I'm okay [00:47:27] with it I'm okay with [00:47:30] um [00:47:31] I think for more I think there may be [00:47:33] information [00:47:35] uh some questions that we might have [00:47:38] that we can assert and then we'll be [00:47:40] prepared so you know we will be prepared [00:47:42] to vote on Mondays a Tuesday Sunday [00:47:45] Tuesday November 1st uh maybe we'll [00:47:47] start at six [00:47:50] um so I will ask for [00:47:53] um the vote all in favor of the motion [00:47:56] is to defer our uh vote until November [00:48:00] 1st after [00:48:01] hearing on the 31st [00:48:04] all those in favor [00:48:07] no [00:48:09] uh I'll say yes [00:48:12] so the motion feelings so we will vote [00:48:14] on November 1st [00:48:18] anything else before this lessons [00:48:21] um meeting that we should address [00:48:26] uh hearing them I will ask for a motion [00:48:33] oh could you please um pick your chairs [00:48:35] up before you leave so I'll see us [00:48:37] custodian thank you [00:48:39] um