Thumbnail for Hardwick, MA Board of Selectmen Meeting 5/03/23

Hardwick Sewer Rates and Betterments Discussion

Original title: Hardwick, MA Board of Selectmen Meeting 5/03/23

These meeting notes are AI-generated and unofficial. They are provided for convenience and are not official Town records or approved municipal minutes. Verify all details using the source video and official Town documents.

Meeting details

Date

May 4, 2023

Duration

1h 27m

Decisions

2 recorded

Action Items

5 assigned

Summary

The Hardwick Board of Selectmen convened to discuss proposed sewer rates and betterments with Lori Stevens from ARCAP. Three options for both rates (per bedroom with 4-bedroom maximum, per bedroom with 3-bedroom maximum, and Equivalent Dwelling Units - EDU) were presented, aiming to meet an estimated $850,000 annual Enterprise Fund cost and a $2.8 million betterment cost. The Board voted to adopt the EDU-based rate structure for the current year, with a commitment to rewrite regulations to encompass all three options and re-evaluate rates annually. Discussions also covered the possibility of shifting more betterment costs to the general tax base, the necessity of legal counsel for implementation, and scheduling a public informational meeting on betterments for May 16th. Additionally, the Board briefly addressed the need for a Request for Proposals (RFP) for independent oversight management of the new sewer plants.

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Discussion Highlights

Lori Stevens from ARCAP presented three options for sewer Enterprise Fund rates and betterments, each designed to meet an estimated $850,000 annual operating cost and a $2.8 million betterment cost.
The $850,000 annual Enterprise Fund cost includes existing loan payoffs but excludes the new loan, which is covered by betterments and the tax base.
Concerns were raised regarding the per-bedroom rate method, specifically the definition of a 'bedroom' and the potential for numerous abatement requests requiring significant administrative resources for site visits.
The Board discussed the feasibility of implementing a senior discount for sewer rates, acknowledging that such a measure could create complexities and shift costs to other users.
The option of allocating the entire betterment cost to the general tax base was explored, with the understanding that it would require approval from the USDA and a subsequent town vote.
It was clarified that the chosen method for sewer rates does not necessarily need to align with the method selected for betterments.
The current sewer regulations are based on the Equivalent Dwelling Unit (EDU) system, and any change to a different rate structure would necessitate a revision of these regulations.
The urgency from the USDA to finalize a decision on rates to facilitate the release of project funding was noted.
The need for an RFP for an independent oversight management company was discussed, to provide supervision during both the construction and initial operational phases of the new sewer plants, ensuring a smooth transition and accountability.

Transcript (12,160 words)

Lightly cleaned for readability. Each timestamp opens the video at that point.

00:00:00
Open our selectman's meeting today on a the agenda is a visitation from our cap about rate discussions and discussing the sewer then adjournment so if you guys are all set maybe we can
00:00:20
Get started with Lori Stevens from our cap and overview of what she kind of did over the last week for us with the additional information with rate I should say possible rate
00:00:42
Information are you all set yes I am I'm going to share my screen oh you have to enable participation for me to do that please oh
00:01:04
News to me there we go I don't really know where to do that I think last time you had to make me
00:01:24
I did I had to make you host I was trying to just allow you to share your screen without doing that that uh just so I can let people in as they come in I will make you hosts
00:01:44
Sure let me know if there's something you want me to do to allow people come in or however I'll be happy to do that let me know when you're ready you're all set you are the host now okay
00:02:05
[Music] okay I have on my screen uh we talked about rates for the sewer Enterprise fund and we have three different options and I went over this during the week with Nicole
00:02:23
And uh first can everyone see that big enough okay yeah all right so we have rates for the sewer Enterprise fund this column is rates based on a four bedroom maximum so this is a uniform
00:02:41

[00:00:00] open our selectman's meeting [00:00:03] um today on a the agenda is [00:00:07] a visitation from our cap about rate [00:00:09] discussions [00:00:11] and [00:00:12] discussing the sewer [00:00:15] then adjournment [00:00:17] so if you guys are all set maybe we can [00:00:20] get started with Lori [00:00:22] Stevens from our cap and [00:00:26] overview of what she [00:00:29] kind of did over the last week for us [00:00:31] with the uh [00:00:33] additional information with rate [00:00:36] I should say possible rate [00:00:38] um [00:00:42] information [00:00:47] are you all set [00:00:48] yes I am I'm going to share my screen [00:00:54] oh you have to enable participation for [00:00:57] me to do that please oh [00:01:04] news to me there we go [00:01:08] um [00:01:17] I don't really know where to do that [00:01:20] I think last time you had to make me [00:01:24] I did I had to make you host I was [00:01:27] trying to just allow you to share your [00:01:29] screen without doing that [00:01:33] that uh just so I can let people in as [00:01:36] they come in [00:01:40] I will make you hosts [00:01:44] sure let me know if there's something [00:01:45] you want me to do to [00:01:48] allow people come in or however I'll be [00:01:51] happy to [00:01:52] do that let me know when you're ready [00:01:54] you're all set you are the host now okay [00:02:05] [Music] [00:02:07] okay I have on my screen uh we talked [00:02:10] about rates for the sewer Enterprise [00:02:12] fund and we have three different options [00:02:17] and I went over this during the week [00:02:20] with Nicole [00:02:23] and uh first can everyone see that [00:02:27] big enough okay yeah all right so we [00:02:31] have [00:02:32] um rates for the sewer Enterprise fund [00:02:34] this column is rates based on a four [00:02:38] bedroom maximum so this is a uniform [00:02:41] rate method [00:02:43] now you unit is per bedroom and units [00:02:46] were counted per bedroom with a four [00:02:48] bedroom maximum [00:02:51] the next one [00:02:52] um I'll go through these in detail but [00:02:54] the next one is the same similar system [00:02:56] but it was weighted on a three bedroom [00:02:59] maximum [00:03:01] and the last column is rates based on [00:03:04] edu's your current edu system [00:03:07] so existing residential [00:03:11] edu's were used in commercial and [00:03:15] Industrial edus were recalculated based [00:03:18] on site visits and title V calculations [00:03:21] and we went over that before I can give [00:03:23] you more detail if you would like later [00:03:26] the metered flow was converted based on [00:03:29] the allocation of 32 [00:03:33] 912 gallons per year [00:03:39] here on this four bedroom the First [00:03:41] Column comes out if you calculate the [00:03:44] units [00:03:48] sorry about that [00:03:51] if you calculate the units there's [00:03:56] 1274 residential units Quabbin is 49 [00:04:01] Industrial and Commercial has 84. [00:04:04] Eagle Hill school is 97 Municipal is 25. [00:04:09] the churches were allocated nine units [00:04:16] this comes out to a cost with one [00:04:18] bedroom [00:04:21] about 550 [00:04:23] two bedroom it's about a thousand [00:04:26] bedroom four bedrooms so on [00:04:29] so [00:04:30] this is the cost per property type so [00:04:34] we'd see most of the cost is coming out [00:04:38] here in the [00:04:40] residential area about seven hundred [00:04:44] thousand and then this Quabbin [00:04:47] commercial industrial Eagle Hill School [00:04:50] Municipal and the churches and coming [00:04:53] out to [00:04:55] about 850 000 and that is the estimated [00:05:00] anticipated [00:05:03] sewer Enterprise fund would be 850 [00:05:08] 000 based on [00:05:10] um [00:05:11] the calculations in the new system the [00:05:13] new wastewater treatment plants [00:05:17] in the middle column is a three bedroom [00:05:19] maximum so you'll see what goes down is [00:05:23] the residential numbers [00:05:28] um Quabbin stays the same all the other [00:05:31] numbers stay the same cost per bedroom [00:05:34] slightly increased [00:05:36] one bedroom is [00:05:38] 568 two bedroom is [00:05:42] 1137 three bedroom one thousand seven [00:05:46] hundred you know approximately [00:05:49] and and this again this sums up to what [00:05:53] our goal is about eight hundred and [00:05:55] fifty thousand [00:05:57] anyone have any questions on that so far [00:06:04] okay the other option is to using the [00:06:08] equivalent dwelling units so that would [00:06:11] be [00:06:13] per unit [00:06:14] is per equivalent dwelling units [00:06:18] the residential units is only [00:06:22] 482 because we're not counting per [00:06:24] bedroom and we're saying each unit [00:06:27] is the same [00:06:28] now if you have a duplex that would be [00:06:32] counted as two different units [00:06:37] a residential would be 49 [00:06:40] commercial industrial is 73 based on the [00:06:44] units that are there [00:06:47] um Eagle Hill school is 83 [00:06:50] Municipal is 13 and churches are four [00:06:58] one one dwelling would be one thousand [00:07:01] two hundred a duplex [00:07:04] two thousand four hundred [00:07:06] Triplex [00:07:07] 3600 and again this sums up to the 850 [00:07:12] 000. [00:07:22] because um go ahead [00:07:25] we want to take some questions on this [00:07:28] while you're since you got the rates or [00:07:30] do you did you want to add more no I [00:07:33] just I just was going to open it up to [00:07:34] any questions or comments or how these [00:07:37] were derived or [00:07:40] um I'd be happy to answer what I can [00:07:46] Kelly you got anything [00:07:49] no no [00:07:54] you think I'm good [00:07:56] at this point [00:07:58] how about you Eric [00:08:00] well that I don't know what the rates [00:08:03] mean I guess I'm feeling stupid because [00:08:05] this [00:08:07] um we want to get to 850 [00:08:10] 000 [00:08:10] that's uh annual cost of the Enterprise [00:08:13] fund [00:08:15] that is what the um [00:08:18] estimated cost for running the sewer [00:08:22] system when the two treatment plants are [00:08:24] up and running [00:08:25] okay so these rates would be essentially [00:08:28] annual numbers [00:08:30] correct so right now I think your [00:08:35] um [00:08:37] your Enterprise fund the [00:08:39] the budget is a little bit less [00:08:42] than this I'm not sure what it's running [00:08:44] this time [00:08:46] but we were told from the engineering [00:08:49] firm that with the two treatment plants [00:08:52] and the new pump station [00:08:54] time labor [00:08:56] expenses chemicals so that would be [00:08:58] about 850 000 so that's the number that [00:09:02] I'm trying to build to [00:09:05] all your rate numbers and rate [00:09:08] development has to come up to 850 [00:09:11] 000. [00:09:18] and I and I assume I'll just speak out [00:09:22] that [00:09:23] down the road we discovered that the [00:09:25] budget is going to be 9.50 all these [00:09:27] methods would work the math would just [00:09:29] have to be revised [00:09:31] correct I would I would be leaving [00:09:34] Nicole with the spreadsheets right so [00:09:37] she could uh punch in the new numbers [00:09:40] and go age 50 is [00:09:43] um you know if your insurance rates go [00:09:45] down your rates go down if gas prices go [00:09:47] down it's going to go down you know and [00:09:50] that's [00:09:51] um included in this now what is also [00:09:54] included [00:09:56] is to pay off the three existing loans [00:09:59] that you have [00:10:00] but it doesn't include any payoff for [00:10:03] the new loan because that's part of the [00:10:06] betterment [00:10:07] right [00:10:09] okay I was going to ask about the [00:10:11] existing debt [00:10:13] so this is this is projected what it's [00:10:17] going to cost to run [00:10:19] operation once once this job is done [00:10:24] correct [00:10:38] and again I mean if you wanted to make [00:10:41] an assumption that [00:10:43] um next year year after year after that [00:10:46] you want to [00:10:48] instead of 850 you want it to be 8 20. [00:10:51] you could do that but the point of this [00:10:54] exercise is coming up with a method [00:10:56] that you can divvy up whatever that [00:10:59] final cost is that you want it to be so [00:11:02] I was told to go with the 850 [00:11:06] 000 based on Consulting the engineers [00:11:10] talking to Scott [00:11:12] talking to Nicole about the indirect [00:11:15] costs between departments and all of [00:11:17] that foreign [00:11:23] it really is not it's not tied to [00:11:27] whatever betterment scheme we come up [00:11:30] with and it's not really tied to the [00:11:33] taxes [00:11:35] this is really just like to be for being [00:11:38] on the system [00:11:42] that's very that's a very good point [00:11:45] um it is not tied to either although [00:11:48] sometimes I find communities if they go [00:11:51] with a per dwelling unit they might do [00:11:53] their betterments for dwelling if they [00:11:55] go with [00:11:57] um their linear foot Road Frontage for [00:12:00] their betterment then you don't do your [00:12:02] sewer rate by that so you know you could [00:12:07] your uniform rate method [00:12:10] could be [00:12:12] um with the betterments also if you want [00:12:14] to do it per bedroom or per dwelling but [00:12:17] you don't have to so they are not to [00:12:19] tied together [00:12:21] thanks [00:12:25] yeah this is this is more to figure out [00:12:27] if we wanted to [00:12:29] change our current system of charging [00:12:33] rates of how we charge the rates [00:12:37] at this point [00:12:39] more so than [00:12:42] the betterment [00:12:43] so completely different kind of animal [00:12:45] at this [00:12:48] right well I would like to tell you [00:12:51] about one of the [00:12:53] advantages of doing the per bedroom [00:12:56] method is you might have a [00:13:00] um [00:13:01] someone in a small house maybe a senior [00:13:03] couple in the small house they're paying [00:13:05] per bedroom [00:13:07] and they only have a two bedroom house [00:13:10] so it's not [00:13:12] paying the same as someone with a four [00:13:14] bedroom [00:13:16] or three bedroom [00:13:18] and you can see that in the rates paid [00:13:22] by [00:13:23] Quabbin [00:13:25] that residential unit [00:13:29] down here [00:13:31] it's about [00:13:32] 35 [00:13:33] 000 here about forty thousand on the per [00:13:36] dwelling unit it's about sixty thousand [00:13:39] all right [00:13:56] okay for me [00:14:00] you comfortable Eric yep [00:14:07] um [00:14:09] I mean I I personally uh [00:14:15] I like to change at least between [00:14:17] three and [00:14:19] brought some numbers a little closer [00:14:21] that we that was true [00:14:24] a wide range here of [00:14:27] um from 500 basically two thousand [00:14:29] dollars for a yearly cost [00:14:34] um I'm still a little concerned with [00:14:38] Seventeen hundred dollars on a three [00:14:39] bedroom house [00:14:41] knowing that [00:14:44] quite a few of the houses probably have [00:14:47] two people in them the three bedroom and [00:14:49] they could be elderly also [00:14:51] uh [00:14:55] but like I said it's just [00:14:57] I guess I haven't really made a decision [00:14:59] yet I don't know about the rest if [00:15:01] Eric or Kelly have you [00:15:04] had a decision on what you feel is [00:15:06] true [00:15:10] um I guess uh I kind of agree with you [00:15:12] rob that the looking at the three [00:15:14] bedroom Max does bring it up you know a [00:15:17] little bit [00:15:18] like a happy medium I lost [00:15:21] um [00:15:22] we're still addressing it as you know [00:15:25] her bedroom [00:15:27] but it's um you know that that Gap from [00:15:30] you know one unit [00:15:32] where we're paying you know [00:15:35] a little over a thousand dollars now and [00:15:38] that that jumps it's like it it puts it [00:15:40] in half [00:15:42] I kind of I have a hard time swallowing [00:15:44] that I guess [00:15:46] um that we're actually going backwards [00:15:48] so [00:15:50] I don't know I [00:15:52] I do like the option of the the three [00:15:54] bedroom Max [00:15:56] but I'm I'm kind of torn with [00:15:59] what we're doing now works [00:16:04] foreign [00:16:14] my question last week was you know are [00:16:17] we accounting for some of those you know [00:16:20] commercial units that were maybe [00:16:22] overcharged or undercharged and it [00:16:24] sounds like by site visits that that was [00:16:27] the case like those that was all looked [00:16:29] at when when Lori and um Nicole visited [00:16:33] places to maybe address those um [00:16:37] discrepancies [00:16:38] so they [00:16:41] I guess I'm kind of I'm kind of torn [00:16:43] between the three bedroom Max and you [00:16:45] know the way we currently do it [00:16:47] um [00:16:52] yeah I guess one of my issues with doing [00:16:54] in a bedroom [00:16:56] um how some people Define a bedroom [00:16:59] I know the title five has a [00:17:03] mission for how they right qualify homes [00:17:07] and rooms yeah means of a grass in a [00:17:10] closet right [00:17:11] yes [00:17:13] in Massachusetts sometimes you have a [00:17:16] um [00:17:17] ceiling height [00:17:19] it has to have at least [00:17:21] seven feet in One Direction you know [00:17:25] minimum [00:17:27] so you can't count a hallway [00:17:32] right yeah [00:17:34] because the hallway could have a closet [00:17:35] and yeah [00:17:37] yeah I'm not so worried about [00:17:40] I'm more worried about people coming in [00:17:42] and saying well that's a Dan that's an [00:17:44] office [00:17:45] you know and we'll be getting into those [00:17:48] discussions right [00:17:50] just as I mean honestly it's a matter of [00:17:52] time you should just get through them [00:17:53] but it couldn't tie it up for years of [00:17:57] people asking for abatements [00:17:59] um I worked with one community in this [00:18:02] method where they before they sent out [00:18:07] um [00:18:08] your bedroom counts they sent a letter [00:18:10] to each person [00:18:12] we're redoing our [00:18:16] doing this based on the number of [00:18:18] bedrooms our assessors records say you [00:18:21] have X number of bedrooms if you do not [00:18:24] agree with that please give us a call [00:18:26] and we'll set up a site visit [00:18:28] and a couple of things one person took [00:18:31] out a wall because they wanted a big [00:18:33] bedroom and obviously it went down it [00:18:35] wasn't four bedrooms anymore it was now [00:18:37] three and that was obvious and you know [00:18:39] and some other people wanted to it [00:18:41] not to be a bedroom so they didn't have [00:18:44] to pay as much and [00:18:46] it hurts but it you know that's kind of [00:18:49] you either [00:18:50] that's how you have to [00:18:53] develop it yeah [00:18:56] um [00:19:01] right we just recently had a duplex take [00:19:04] a wall down to make a single family home [00:19:14] well we don't we don't have any way to [00:19:17] meter this that's obviously our problem [00:19:19] right [00:19:21] um [00:19:24] if we go through this with abatements or [00:19:27] I've gone through this with abatements [00:19:29] because [00:19:30] people say they haven't been using it [00:19:33] uh you know an apartment that is [00:19:36] not rented [00:19:38] you've got to also figure that it's [00:19:41] possible to rent it so it has value it [00:19:44] gets tricky and then [00:19:47] and then going around to see [00:19:50] I don't know if we have [00:19:53] that kind of [00:19:55] Manpower [00:20:01] I I guess to the the point of I I [00:20:04] understand we're trying to [00:20:07] this the most part elderly because I I [00:20:09] hear quada States [00:20:11] basically being [00:20:12] singled out here or see it being [00:20:16] said we've mentioned elderly um [00:20:19] if we stayed the same and created a [00:20:22] senior discount [00:20:25] is [00:20:26] that may be a better option and [00:20:30] we may have to adjust the [00:20:33] the edu rate and create a [00:20:37] some kind of a senior discount which [00:20:38] would have to [00:20:40] obviously a bylaw realm to [00:20:43] give some parameters of what who would [00:20:46] qualify somebody [00:20:49] um [00:20:50] foreign [00:20:53] a [00:20:55] can of worms there if you're going to [00:20:57] allow a senior discount [00:20:59] what's to say that someone who [00:21:02] doesn't have the means [00:21:05] is you know where do you stop those [00:21:07] discounts at [00:21:10] well I know the state has like when they [00:21:13] reimburse people for fees and stuff they [00:21:15] have income [00:21:17] as well as [00:21:19] a lot of the stuff [00:21:22] um [00:21:23] people that obviously have to [00:21:25] if they wanted it they would have to ask [00:21:27] for it it wouldn't just be [00:21:29] just be an automatic [00:21:33] in a sense it would be some kind of an [00:21:35] abatement [00:21:37] in a way [00:21:38] right [00:21:42] I don't know if that would get a little [00:21:43] convoluted [00:21:45] but the rate with the actual rate [00:21:51] yeah because we go back to [00:21:54] back to change the rate schedule what [00:21:56] the edu's now I think it's gonna we're [00:21:59] gonna follow suit with whatever we do [00:22:01] with abatements that's the only reason [00:22:06] and that shifts the cost onto [00:22:11] those without abatements everybody else [00:22:13] right [00:22:15] which is always what happens in [00:22:18] yeah [00:22:19] do we know how much how many people are [00:22:24] not paying [00:22:29] do we have a figure for uh non-payment [00:22:33] I don't have a fingerprint on payment [00:22:35] but we are a little over [00:22:37] half collected but [00:22:39] um [00:22:40] we are we're just sending out a bill you [00:22:43] know the bills are just going just well [00:22:45] so [00:22:48] the second Bill isn't due until the end [00:22:50] of May yeah and we've collected about I [00:22:52] think I looked today it was about 440 [00:22:54] that we've collected so far [00:22:56] 450. [00:23:02] so I mean over the last couple years [00:23:06] we we've been getting 100 of our bills [00:23:09] paid [00:23:13] would probably evade 20-ish properties a [00:23:16] year and then [00:23:18] actually there's probably [00:23:20] 20 or so that don't pay some that are so [00:23:23] far in the rears that [00:23:25] a few of these buildings have been kind [00:23:27] of abandoned [00:23:29] I think we're just keep tallying up on a [00:23:30] few of them [00:23:32] yeah [00:23:34] it becomes a lien on their taxes like on [00:23:37] their taxes yeah right they get paid [00:23:39] eventually because even if we sell the [00:23:41] lien if we have lean auctions then the [00:23:44] next you know they do get paid [00:23:46] um and we do have we have had sewer [00:23:48] retained earnings every year that I've [00:23:50] been there so they're spend money you [00:23:52] know back [00:23:54] so I don't know what the collection is [00:23:56] but I know that what we've collected and [00:23:59] budgeted has been enough [00:24:02] because you know we get retained [00:24:04] earnings back [00:24:07] I mean some people are slow just slow on [00:24:09] paying too [00:24:10] we may not get paid [00:24:13] they'll pay [00:24:14] the following year at some point yeah [00:24:19] it's a good question for The Collector [00:24:21] if [00:24:24] um [00:24:26] Laurie here some communities set up [00:24:29] um [00:24:30] you know a a payment plan [00:24:33] so if you have people who are having [00:24:35] trouble paying [00:24:37] um you want to include what's coming up [00:24:41] too so they have a monthly payment plan [00:24:43] instead of every six months paid [00:24:47] we've got that yes and so I think we [00:24:49] offer that when it when it needs to be [00:24:52] yeah [00:24:53] excellent yeah [00:24:57] I can get the previous year collection [00:24:59] rate though for the you know for the [00:25:01] past few years I can get that from [00:25:03] tomorrow from accounting [00:25:18] I mean you guys want to discuss this [00:25:19] anymore do you want to move on to [00:25:23] the abatements and then maybe discuss [00:25:26] them both together so [00:25:28] information [00:25:31] I'm good with that Rob yeah it's good [00:25:36] if you don't mind Lori you want to go [00:25:38] over your abatement numbers [00:25:40] um the betterments correct sorry [00:25:46] big difference [00:25:49] okay so these I just put blue so it's [00:25:52] different color than the green we had so [00:25:54] we can tell them apart so these are [00:25:56] betterments and you wanted them [00:25:59] um on the similar [00:26:01] scenarios as before [00:26:04] betterments are based on a uniform rate [00:26:06] method the rate is the uniform rate is [00:26:09] per bedroom [00:26:10] four bedroom maximum in the middle [00:26:13] column is a three bedroom maximum and [00:26:16] these are [00:26:17] betterments based on edu's based on a [00:26:21] uniform rate method existing residential [00:26:23] edus were used commercial and Industrial [00:26:27] edus [00:26:28] we'll recalculated based on site visits [00:26:32] and title V calculations which we went [00:26:34] over before the metered flow was [00:26:36] converted based on the allocation of 32 [00:26:41] 912 gallons per year and that's similar [00:26:45] to the system you're using now [00:26:49] so [00:26:52] residential units on the four bedroom [00:26:55] Max there's 1227 [00:27:00] Quabbin is 49. commercial industrial 74. [00:27:05] Eagleville School is 97. [00:27:08] Municipal is 25 [00:27:11] churches are nine this is the total [00:27:13] number of units [00:27:15] the USDA loan is 5 million six hundred [00:27:19] and eighty one thousand half of the USDA [00:27:23] loan this would be better the other half [00:27:26] is going to become the tax base so [00:27:28] that's [00:27:30] 2 million [00:27:32] 840 500. [00:27:34] so this amount [00:27:36] if you divide this into that it comes up [00:27:40] with [00:27:42] 1917 dollars [00:27:45] about [00:27:47] so let's see how it adds up the [00:27:50] residential betterments about 2.3 [00:27:53] million [00:27:54] squabbing [00:27:55] is ninety three thousand almost ninety [00:27:59] four thousand [00:28:00] commercial Industrials 141 [00:28:03] 000 [00:28:05] 929 Eagle Hill school is 186 [00:28:11] 000 Municipal is 48 almost 49 000 and [00:28:16] churches are 17 [00:28:17] 000. and we talked at the last meeting [00:28:20] that you wanted to con um include the [00:28:25] municipal buildings in the betterments [00:28:28] even though half of the money [00:28:30] is going on the tax base [00:28:35] so [00:28:37] one bedroom [00:28:39] is [00:28:41] 1917 two bedrooms 300 3835 [00:28:48] and so on [00:28:51] any questions about that [00:28:53] before we move on okay [00:28:55] this is the three bedroom so your [00:28:58] residential units go down [00:29:01] everything else stays depression pretty [00:29:03] much the same this is going to be [00:29:05] slightly Higher One Thousand nine [00:29:09] hundred and thirty six [00:29:13] and this is your cost for residential [00:29:16] commercial Robin [00:29:18] Eagle Hill School Municipal and churches [00:29:21] and again both of these this one and [00:29:24] this one here add up to our Target [00:29:26] number which is half the alone amount [00:29:29] and this is a betterment cost per house [00:29:34] you know it's it's [00:29:36] um slightly more than the other one but [00:29:39] you don't have the four bedroom in there [00:29:42] and this column is based on the current [00:29:44] edu's betterments are based on the [00:29:46] uniform rate method existing edus reused [00:29:50] commercial and industrial edu's [00:29:52] recalculated based on site business [00:29:54] visits and title V calculations the [00:29:58] metered flow was converted based on the [00:30:00] allocation of 32 912 gallons per year [00:30:04] so this is the number of residential [00:30:07] units a duplex would be two units [00:30:11] Triplex would be three [00:30:16] commercial industrial 70 [00:30:18] 73 Eagle Hill School is [00:30:21] 83 minutes as full as 13. churches of [00:30:25] four [00:30:26] that's adds up to 407 and the betterment [00:30:30] per unit here is [00:30:32] four thousand dollars [00:30:36] and again per unit times the betterment [00:30:39] this is a cost per property type and [00:30:42] again this adds up to [00:30:45] a target number of approximately 2.8 [00:30:47] million [00:30:54] X [00:30:59] now betterments can be financed over a [00:31:02] period that you folks decide upon is it [00:31:05] 10 years is it 20 years [00:31:08] 30 years [00:31:11] and charge at the interest rate that [00:31:13] you're paying up to [00:31:15] 2 percent more [00:31:18] interest that you're paying which is [00:31:20] 1.375 percent [00:31:24] and that figure stays solid throughout [00:31:26] the [00:31:27] life of this long [00:31:30] the interest rate stays solid throughout [00:31:33] the life of the loan [00:31:47] I'm I'm coming late to this but have you [00:31:51] guys talked about [00:31:53] putting this [00:31:55] more on the tax base the whole thing [00:31:59] instead of just 50 percent of it [00:32:03] um that would be a decision in your [00:32:06] letter of conditions from the USDA it's [00:32:09] noted that half will go on the tax base [00:32:11] and the other half will go on the sewer [00:32:14] users [00:32:16] being an Enterprise fund it is separate [00:32:20] so it's supposed to pay its own bills [00:32:23] but you can say [00:32:26] um [00:32:27] the general public does benefit from [00:32:29] clean water coming out of the treatment [00:32:31] plants going into the river [00:32:34] so I don't know if you could justify [00:32:39] all of the expense going on [00:32:43] non-summer users [00:32:50] I hope I don't get shot for what I just [00:32:52] said [00:32:54] no I think Eric I so I'll I mean I'll [00:32:57] back you up there because I think we've [00:32:59] all thought that to see [00:33:01] you know what what would the lesser of [00:33:04] the evil look like right [00:33:08] this is a lot this is a big burden on a [00:33:10] small amount of people [00:33:12] and so if we split it over a larger [00:33:15] amount of people that burden may not be [00:33:17] so much [00:33:18] so you you just said I think out loud [00:33:20] what we're all thinking and have thought [00:33:22] for [00:33:23] or pondered but I think that would be [00:33:26] a conversation first of all with USDA to [00:33:29] see if they would be willing to even you [00:33:32] know allow us to entertain that and then [00:33:34] you know possibly another vote [00:33:39] another thing is now we're dividing it [00:33:42] among the sewer users those who are [00:33:44] connected [00:33:45] sewer users who are not connected I mean [00:33:48] they're not sewer users but if they're [00:33:51] along the line when you put the [00:33:54] fines and did you require everybody to [00:33:57] connect and if you did not you might [00:34:00] have people along the line you could [00:34:02] connect but have chosen not to and I've [00:34:04] seen sometimes those people are better [00:34:08] but some communities have if the super [00:34:12] line goes in front of your house you [00:34:14] have to connect no matter what then [00:34:16] other people say well you need to [00:34:18] connect but I can't just connect because [00:34:20] I need a grinder pump this that and the [00:34:23] other thing so if you pay for that then [00:34:25] I will connect [00:34:27] so [00:34:28] then they'd have to pay a betterment and [00:34:31] for [00:34:33] construction of their line which is [00:34:36] you know [00:34:38] a few grand at least [00:34:42] and the way I've always understood it [00:34:45] the betterment is [00:34:47] the potential [00:34:49] for a piece of land [00:34:53] it betters the uh you know future house [00:34:56] lot [00:34:57] so [00:34:59] that that would be a way to figure for [00:35:02] for Frontage I've seen that mentioned [00:35:05] but that's not [00:35:07] here [00:35:08] we're not looking at that [00:35:11] well do you [00:35:13] bring up a good point if there's sewer [00:35:16] in front of your house and you can [00:35:18] connect your sewer is good your property [00:35:21] is worth more that's why your property [00:35:23] is bettered that's why they call it a [00:35:26] betterment right [00:35:27] and I don't know if your regulations say [00:35:31] um [00:35:32] and I think I [00:35:34] suggested that you visit this say that [00:35:37] anyone changing house you have to [00:35:39] automatically connect to the Sewer [00:35:42] or if your septic system fails you can't [00:35:44] replace your septic system you have to [00:35:47] automatically connect to the Sewer [00:35:50] I thought that's the way we [00:35:53] again I'm I missed 10 years of this but [00:35:57] that's I I think we were talking about [00:35:59] that at the beginning yeah that's not [00:36:02] forcing people to hook up unless they [00:36:05] were in failure correct [00:36:09] I think um you have to create a [00:36:13] District also [00:36:15] to do stuff like that [00:36:17] that they if you're going to enforce it [00:36:19] everybody ties into it I think you have [00:36:21] to like create a District zone [00:36:24] and outline the area [00:36:27] people are going to be [00:36:29] required to tie in [00:36:34] it could be wrong but I was told a while [00:36:37] back [00:36:38] the case that sounds pretty accurate [00:36:48] um [00:36:56] well Lori just to clarify [00:36:59] um if we chose [00:37:01] to stay for our rates with our edus we [00:37:06] don't have to choose [00:37:08] pdus for betterments [00:37:11] and I'm just using that as an example [00:37:13] I'm sorry I just I just called up on the [00:37:16] screen to chat because I was originally [00:37:18] had this so [00:37:20] um can you read this Nicole because [00:37:22] they're not asking I think [00:37:25] I think you're the boy you're they're [00:37:27] asking the question I'd be happy to [00:37:28] answer if you want me to [00:37:31] can you read that guys [00:37:34] um well I mean well we'll take questions [00:37:36] from people in a minute okay sure sure [00:37:39] if you respond to Kelly first [00:37:42] okay I'm sorry Kelly I was I saw that [00:37:44] text what was your question again I'm [00:37:46] sorry [00:37:48] um if we choose one method of charging [00:37:52] our rates [00:37:53] we don't necessarily have to [00:37:56] pick the same method for implementing [00:37:59] betterments correct correct okay I just [00:38:02] wanted I just wanted to clarify that [00:38:03] just so that I understood that correctly [00:38:06] and anyone else that you know questioned [00:38:08] it thank you as long as it's a uniform [00:38:10] rate method you know it's the house is [00:38:13] it the bedroom it could be uniform it [00:38:15] could be linear foot of Road Frontage [00:38:17] you can't say [00:38:19] if it's not logical you can't adopt it [00:38:22] no I mean I'm I'm looking at these three [00:38:24] options thinking that you know I think [00:38:27] these are three you know reasonable [00:38:28] options in front of us and so say we [00:38:31] stayed with edus for our rates [00:38:35] but decided that we wanted to go with [00:38:37] the the three bedroom Max for our [00:38:39] betterments we can do that [00:38:43] yes but that would be a question I would [00:38:45] suggest that you talk to your attorney [00:38:48] before you put all the wheels in motion [00:38:52] oh I've seen that done before you know [00:38:55] okay okay fair enough quite often people [00:38:58] are doing the betterments in the [00:39:00] don't enter into it because that was [00:39:03] decided upon long ago [00:39:16] Laura did you want to answer uh this [00:39:18] question here [00:39:19] is Columbus Estates metered [00:39:24] he's I'm not sure if Robin Estates is [00:39:26] needed are they on the water system [00:39:33] you're on real red water yep okay so [00:39:37] they are meteored but the question is if [00:39:39] it was can the actual usage be divided [00:39:42] between the number of bedrooms and I [00:39:45] think this question is related to the [00:39:48] betterment or the rates [00:39:52] uh because if it's related to the [00:39:53] betterment you could only better the [00:39:55] property [00:39:56] properties so I don't know if the people [00:39:58] are renters or owners [00:40:06] right yeah it's [00:40:10] yeah so I don't know if they actually [00:40:11] own or I believe if they do not own [00:40:13] because it's one bill that goes to that [00:40:15] whole property correct I think they rent [00:40:17] I'm sure I'm sure it's passed on [00:40:20] oh absolutely yeah I agree Kelly yeah um [00:40:25] you cannot Levy a betterment on someone [00:40:27] who doesn't own property all the [00:40:29] betterments are going to be registered [00:40:30] as [00:40:32] D to the owner yeah do the property yeah [00:40:35] this question was relative to the rates [00:40:37] though they just um [00:40:39] he just okay said it was yeah he's [00:40:42] questioning the rates [00:40:44] oh okay okay [00:40:47] 3A line [00:40:48] oh stubs at every house along the line [00:40:51] so they put in stubs [00:40:54] yeah [00:40:56] well [00:40:58] for stubs it wouldn't be relevant to the [00:41:02] rates because you don't rate [00:41:06] um charge a rate if they're unless [00:41:08] they're connected [00:41:12] yeah I think he may have just been [00:41:14] um stating that anyone along the line [00:41:16] has the capability to hook up [00:41:19] when we were talking about yeah and we'd [00:41:23] have to see I only included those along [00:41:27] the line who are connected hooked up [00:41:30] other ones who are not connected you [00:41:33] have to decide if they're not connected [00:41:35] and if they can connect by [00:41:39] um [00:41:40] a grinder pump or is it a gravity [00:41:42] connection [00:41:52] you're off of that line [00:41:54] it's a force main up there [00:41:56] right [00:41:58] so [00:42:00] do you give them a betterment even [00:42:02] though like [00:42:03] someone who can flow by gravity they'll [00:42:05] have like [00:42:06] a thousand dollar better man [00:42:08] is the other person is a four thousand [00:42:09] dollar betterment but it's going to be [00:42:12] um a couple Grand to get a pot grinder [00:42:14] pump in there should you charge them the [00:42:16] same amount of betterment or do you do [00:42:18] reduce it by the cost of the grinder [00:42:21] pump [00:42:23] sure decision [00:42:26] and that would bring on a few more [00:42:28] Parcels to [00:42:31] bring the rates down [00:42:33] but I don't know how many Parcels along [00:42:37] the Route [00:42:38] that aren't connected on some of the [00:42:41] older streets [00:42:46] and if we did look at Frontage then [00:42:49] there are [00:42:50] another 10 parcels [00:42:56] of at least [00:42:58] and in that case you can better people [00:43:01] that are um [00:43:04] that don't have a [00:43:06] they don't have a structure there [00:43:08] correct [00:43:12] I think more and more I'm liking the [00:43:14] whole [00:43:16] okay we see what it does to the taxes is [00:43:18] before we go and [00:43:21] betterments on people that aren't even [00:43:23] hooked up and [00:43:25] I don't know [00:43:28] well I would be happy if you get me the [00:43:31] numbers of the people who [00:43:33] have access to the Shoreline [00:43:37] through their property not through [00:43:39] another person's property [00:43:41] uh I could include those numbers in [00:43:44] there [00:43:53] from what I've hooked up since they [00:43:55] built the line [00:43:57] you're probably looking at like another [00:43:59] 30 35 [00:44:01] okay [00:44:03] I have access it's it's a it's an [00:44:06] okay [00:44:08] is that will right too Rob [00:44:12] I don't think this [00:44:13] this stubs are only put in when they [00:44:17] found a line going up to Hardwick Center [00:44:20] yeah [00:44:21] um [00:44:23] all right I believe is an actual [00:44:26] District [00:44:30] layout [00:44:34] right where you've had hookups and [00:44:37] anybody in the area has to look up [00:44:38] basically [00:44:40] and additionally when they run a sewer [00:44:42] line they put a stub to the property [00:44:45] line if they haven't put a stub to the [00:44:47] property line it's kind of hard to [00:44:49] charge them a betterment because then [00:44:51] they have to dig up in the public Street [00:44:54] to connect to the sewer line so I don't [00:44:56] know the number of people if you say [00:44:58] they're 30 [00:45:00] foreign [00:45:01] so if just [00:45:07] so it would go from go down to [00:45:10] 3 000 about 900. [00:45:13] if you had 30 more connections [00:45:18] but there we're talking about open land [00:45:20] with no stubs [00:45:22] and as you say it would be more of a a [00:45:25] lot more of a task to [00:45:27] hook up we'd have to break the line [00:45:34] you know [00:45:38] charging someone a betterment and they [00:45:41] want to hook up and then they have to [00:45:43] get a street opening permit and pay for [00:45:45] the contractor you know then it's going [00:45:46] to cost them more than the cost of the [00:45:50] betterment yeah [00:46:01] okay [00:46:05] I forgot with the per bedroom basis [00:46:12] how would we handle [00:46:14] the [00:46:15] betterment to like a stub [00:46:23] yeah so if you're talking about the per [00:46:26] bedroom [00:46:27] and someone is not connected [00:46:30] when they do connect [00:46:33] you charge a connection fee that is [00:46:38] um similar to the betterment amount [00:46:44] they have a 3 [00:46:48] 3 but they want to connect they would be [00:46:50] looking at paying [00:46:53] about six thousand dollars to connect [00:46:56] correct yeah [00:47:03] like I said it's very limited to that [00:47:05] one area [00:47:07] um right [00:47:13] but there are stubs there so I don't [00:47:15] know [00:47:23] are you saying that some areas would [00:47:25] actually even if they're not hooked up [00:47:27] it's have [00:47:29] have that stub that you would charge [00:47:31] that betterment regardless at this point [00:47:35] I find I have found communities who say [00:47:39] the sewer lines going in [00:47:41] you're getting a stub [00:47:44] you get a betterment [00:47:46] I have communities said [00:47:48] we'll do that if there's a structure [00:47:50] there if there's no structure there they [00:47:53] choose not to Levy the betterment and [00:47:55] divide it up among everybody else [00:47:58] most of the times I'm doing the [00:48:00] betterment analysis is [00:48:02] sewer lines are going in the ground at [00:48:04] the time [00:48:05] so it's pretty clear that I have the [00:48:08] plans of the sewer and I know where it [00:48:10] is and I know which houses are getting [00:48:12] stubbed so this is a little bit [00:48:14] different that we have to go back in [00:48:17] time to see what sewer lines went wait [00:48:20] were laid out and where did the property [00:48:23] actually got stubs [00:48:29] yeah and it's been there for seven years [00:48:32] or so so now you charge them betterments [00:48:36] or something that's been [00:48:38] there for a while [00:48:41] yeah so wheel right in Gilbertville I [00:48:43] don't know how old [00:48:45] the treatment plants are so the sewer [00:48:48] line is going to be as low [00:48:50] as a little treatment plants [00:48:52] the Gilbertville plant is built in [00:48:55] 1972 with a life expectancy of 20 years [00:49:00] the wheel raid plant was rebuilt [00:49:04] um but turned out kind of experimentally [00:49:06] I don't know what [00:49:10] what its lifespan is [00:49:17] already exceeded [00:49:27] oh you guys got anything that you want [00:49:30] to add [00:49:34] any more questions for Lori [00:49:37] I don't know if it's Lori's [00:49:40] basket but I I would like to look at [00:49:44] what the cost would be to spread this [00:49:46] out across the tax base [00:49:49] I know I'm committing suicide here [00:49:53] I'd like to [00:49:55] see those numbers maybe I can [00:49:58] get together with Jen [00:50:00] and ask her [00:50:02] we are actually yeah actually have them [00:50:08] it's 50 it's 54 cents a thousand [00:50:13] is that for the full cost of this [00:50:16] um a half the cost [00:50:19] for the forecast [00:50:20] okay so it's [00:50:22] 54 cents per thousand [00:50:25] I believe the average family home was [00:50:27] something like 350 Rob do you have that [00:50:29] DLS sheet in front of you [00:50:30] yeah I just remember the per thousand [00:50:33] right I think it was like a 250 000 it [00:50:37] third Department of local Services [00:50:39] there's a way to calculate that we did [00:50:41] it because you know on the police [00:50:43] station was going to be about this much [00:50:44] and this is how much we thought you know [00:50:47] we thought we would be able to borrow [00:50:49] how much this was going to be [00:50:51] um so [00:50:54] yeah 300 about 325 [00:50:57] 175 dollars per household [00:51:02] not just 325 right [00:51:05] yeah 175 per household [00:51:09] well [00:51:11] and are better off going with the 50 54 [00:51:14] cents per thousand so if you know [00:51:19] if you want to mislead people thinking [00:51:20] that [00:51:21] yeah they might have a eight hundred [00:51:23] thousand dollar house [00:51:25] based on the evaluation of your home so [00:51:27] you'd have to do the maximum of the 54 [00:51:30] cents per thousand right [00:51:34] is that um [00:51:38] off [00:51:44] I am [00:51:46] I'll have to confirm that's the correct [00:51:48] information but that's what I have here [00:51:52] so [00:51:54] and [00:51:55] um the [00:51:59] USDA would have some say in the matter [00:52:02] and [00:52:04] um [00:52:06] because it's already written in your [00:52:07] letter of condition so I don't you know [00:52:09] you would have to talk to yeah we'd have [00:52:11] to have another chicken with them for [00:52:13] sure yeah [00:52:15] and we'd have to get it through town [00:52:17] meeting [00:52:18] but we have to do that with the [00:52:20] betterments anyway right [00:52:22] correct [00:52:25] the betterments have to go to a boat [00:52:30] yes [00:52:34] and the Boost in taxes is 50 of that's [00:52:37] going to happen anyway [00:52:40] correct by any of our plans here correct [00:52:45] no [00:52:48] um [00:52:49] yeah [00:52:50] there's no free options no [00:52:55] but like I said you know [00:52:58] what we're tasked to do is find [00:53:01] the best option [00:53:03] for for anyone and everyone involved you [00:53:07] know the town voted to do this project [00:53:08] the town voted to borrow this money [00:53:13] yeah well we could come up with a [00:53:17] betterment Solution on one end and then [00:53:20] also let people [00:53:23] kind of choose okay we'll put it out [00:53:26] there as 100 taxation if the [00:53:30] right yeah and then we could have a [00:53:34] betterment solution [00:53:37] that we would offer if [00:53:41] didn't want to do that [00:53:43] do that yeah and and again I I want [00:53:46] um I think [00:53:49] hey we need to get this moving so we [00:53:51] need to be having these meetings these [00:53:53] information public meetings whatever we [00:53:54] need to have but I want clarification [00:53:57] from [00:53:59] um legal on [00:54:01] how we have to you know present this and [00:54:04] do this so that we're doing it the right [00:54:05] way [00:54:08] well we have numbers man go ahead Nicole [00:54:11] if you can get me the number of [00:54:17] potential people [00:54:19] spoke up to the Sewer who were given a [00:54:22] sewer tie but never hooked up and are [00:54:26] not being built [00:54:28] I would imagine Scott has that [00:54:32] um he I'm sure he has that for um [00:54:35] 32A line but the older lines I don't [00:54:39] know [00:54:42] Gloria it sounds like from what Rob was [00:54:45] saying they weren't given an option down [00:54:47] in Gilbertville and wheel right if it's [00:54:49] a district they had to hook up they [00:54:50] might that I did I understand that right [00:54:52] Rob [00:54:54] yeah I believe that you had 100 build [00:54:56] out right because I think the size of [00:54:58] the properties everywhere they had to [00:55:00] hook up okay [00:55:03] like the size of the parcels you know [00:55:05] for septics wouldn't be feasible so I [00:55:07] think they they had to hook up [00:55:09] yeah because I actually want to say I [00:55:12] believe [00:55:13] uh the offices down Barton yeah I [00:55:18] believe they [00:55:19] [Music] [00:55:22] oh like I could be wrong but I seem to [00:55:24] remember them digging down there yeah [00:55:26] make a connection [00:55:28] I'm sure things weren't working so hot [00:55:31] thereafter it's an empty for a long time [00:55:37] so now we do have a bunch of numbers we [00:55:39] can [00:55:40] cut and paste and put together [00:55:44] some sort of saying [00:55:46] choices [00:55:48] to present [00:55:50] right well so but the rates are on us [00:55:53] correct [00:55:56] the rates are one of the things that you [00:55:58] need to we have to do yeah right and I [00:56:01] think they want you to do it quickly [00:56:03] because [00:56:05] um they want to move forward with the [00:56:07] long enema but [00:56:09] go back to the rates [00:56:24] do we have the sewer budget yet Nicole [00:56:28] um most of it yes but [00:56:30] some of the debt we don't have yet [00:56:33] from UniBank [00:56:35] I'm afraid the rates are going to go out [00:56:37] through the roof I'm not sure yet [00:56:39] we have you know Scott's projections [00:56:45] Debt Service you should have that but [00:56:48] you mean the interim financing for this [00:56:50] project [00:56:51] I mean the 1.8 million dollars that we [00:56:53] just borrowed [00:56:58] yeah I I think it'd be a good idea if [00:57:01] maybe we could tie these numbers to the [00:57:04] actual budget that's coming up [00:57:10] it's very close to 850 right it's not [00:57:13] over 850 correct not so far I just like [00:57:17] I said I the [00:57:18] the interest because of how that you [00:57:21] know everything went up [00:57:23] um and all the tech the feds hiked [00:57:25] everything uh I don't know what that [00:57:26] interest is going to be on that 1.8 [00:57:31] it's a conversation I was gonna have [00:57:33] with you probably tomorrow [00:57:35] so I don't know exactly but we may want [00:57:39] we would we may want to know that before [00:57:41] I mean these these these numbers could [00:57:44] get a little crazy [00:57:47] well I am going to set Nicole up so [00:57:51] whatever the rate is we you can you have [00:57:55] to decide on a format for a rate right [00:57:59] whether it's 8.50 [00:58:02] 78 80. [00:58:05] you know [00:58:06] all the formulas there Lori and [00:58:09] yeah I will I will send you the whole [00:58:11] thing I know that Joe delbow from USDA [00:58:14] was really [00:58:17] um want to know if the decision is made [00:58:19] because they [00:58:20] want to release this money and they [00:58:22] can't do it until [00:58:26] you've made a decision right and I have [00:58:30] sent me an invite to have a meeting with [00:58:31] him on Monday morning at 10 am [00:58:34] excellent let me know if you need me to [00:58:37] be there [00:58:40] well in order to change the rates we're [00:58:42] probably going to have to [00:58:45] at least look [00:58:48] it's currently our whole regulation is [00:58:50] written [00:58:51] off the edu basis [00:58:55] regulation pretty much pretty much balls [00:58:57] around [00:58:58] so we actually would have to change our [00:59:00] regulation [00:59:02] to change the rates [00:59:06] we have to change the wording in some of [00:59:08] those documents [00:59:10] you have to look at [00:59:12] even our abatement process [00:59:15] change through you know in order to [00:59:16] change the rates [00:59:18] so really this isn't a [00:59:21] really quick answer [00:59:24] I mean if we're going to change the way [00:59:25] that we are currently charging [00:59:28] we just can't change the Wayward without [00:59:31] changing [00:59:33] how we are [00:59:36] kind of regulations are written [00:59:39] to the way we charge [00:59:43] you [00:59:44] um in the report I gave you it's [00:59:46] definitely imperative that you revisit [00:59:50] your regulations right [00:59:53] I think that's been been known all along [00:59:56] do that right yeah at least for the past [00:59:59] year I've been involved that we've we've [01:00:01] known that's going to have to be done [01:00:05] right you can't write the regulations [01:00:07] around [01:00:08] a method you haven't chosen [01:00:13] correct all right so yes [01:00:15] we don't have time timing is of the [01:00:18] essence so we don't really have time to [01:00:20] rewrite our regulations right now [01:00:23] get the project moving [01:00:28] we have to go to town meeting for that [01:00:31] for what to change the regulations [01:00:37] I believe we can do it in-house I'd ask [01:00:40] legal but [01:00:47] we're acting as The Silver Commission [01:00:49] now [01:00:55] I mean they were Rewritten in 2010 [01:00:59] they're updated I should say [01:01:03] I'm looking at them now [01:01:07] I don't I don't remember if it went to [01:01:10] town I don't think it did go to town [01:01:12] meeting I don't think so [01:01:14] I think but there's probably [01:01:16] I'm not trying to make trouble I'm just [01:01:19] looking for [01:01:20] land mines [01:01:23] wow but as am I I just I don't want us [01:01:27] to [01:01:28] to move forward on a new [01:01:30] rate [01:01:32] and then oh we need to change the [01:01:34] regulations to actually adopt the rate [01:01:37] right and [01:01:40] because we got that's also a step we [01:01:44] I think we do each yeah [01:01:47] so you could do your rates based on [01:01:49] edu's that is somewhat similar to your [01:01:51] regulations [01:01:54] adopt your your new rates [01:01:57] rewrite your regulations and then if you [01:02:00] want [01:02:01] based on the four bedroom or three [01:02:03] bedroom per unit charge the following [01:02:06] year [01:02:12] first of all most people I I [01:02:16] suggest that they visit their rates [01:02:19] every year whether it's a one percent [01:02:21] increase [01:02:23] but the cost of doing business is not [01:02:27] going down anywhere [01:02:29] no [01:02:30] um [01:02:31] so [01:02:33] I think you want to [01:02:35] um you'll have a method in a format that [01:02:38] you can [01:02:39] if you adopt the eat continue to do the [01:02:42] edus you have a formula that you can [01:02:47] revisit it [01:02:49] every year but you also want to have in [01:02:52] your regulations that [01:02:55] you have the option of other these other [01:02:58] rates [01:02:59] yeah or adding and adjusting people's [01:03:03] rates during the year in case [01:03:06] um [01:03:10] or something [01:03:14] well I kind of like that idea [01:03:16] I think [01:03:19] my thought is that [01:03:21] I was hoping we would actually vote on [01:03:23] the rates tonight to be honest with you [01:03:25] we've we've now had a few meetings about [01:03:28] the raids [01:03:29] we've gotten more information every time [01:03:32] um [01:03:33] I [01:03:35] I do think that we have to act on it and [01:03:37] I don't think that we're being [01:03:39] rushed into anything [01:03:41] um I like what Lori just said you know [01:03:44] if we continue based on edus [01:03:48] to rewrite our our um [01:03:53] thank you regulations [01:03:56] and then add these other structures in [01:03:58] there so that we have the option and and [01:04:01] reevaluate it [01:04:03] next day it should be Revisited you know [01:04:06] every May before town meeting [01:04:10] I think if you were to decide and vote [01:04:14] on [01:04:15] um rates we know that is one of the [01:04:18] requirements for you to get this [01:04:21] these projects moving [01:04:24] and I just um [01:04:26] I don't want you to lose out on that [01:04:27] money [01:04:31] well can I make a motion that we do that [01:04:33] that we [01:04:36] vote to continue with this [01:04:39] edu based rate [01:04:46] can I can I add the other language in [01:04:49] that [01:04:50] um we will re rewrite our regulations [01:04:52] based on this and the additional two [01:04:54] rate structures that were given to us [01:04:57] and reevaluate next you know every year [01:04:59] annually [01:05:02] you know prior to the town meeting which [01:05:04] is the budget [01:05:06] or this Enterprise fund and I'll second [01:05:08] that [01:05:10] can I do you want me to put an option [01:05:13] number on here this is an option you're [01:05:15] choosing [01:05:20] so when you go to USDA you have an [01:05:23] option in Hand of what you voted on [01:05:28] the motion that we should go with the [01:05:31] edu based option [01:05:37] in a second [01:05:41] that we will stay with [01:05:44] options three which is the edu based [01:05:47] rate [01:05:49] but we will add [01:05:51] regulations [01:05:53] we'll add [01:05:55] all right [01:05:57] I [01:06:00] can we like rescind the motion and then [01:06:02] maybe Kelly since you added so much [01:06:05] worded [01:06:06] in the way because I think you guys are [01:06:08] on the same page I just want to make [01:06:09] sure this is clear [01:06:11] only [01:06:12] move it forward does that make sense it [01:06:15] does [01:06:17] Eric you want to resend your motion [01:06:19] quickly well I moved that I resend my [01:06:22] most sugar I'll make a motion that can I [01:06:25] can I interrupt for saying Kelly [01:06:27] no I don't want you making up have to [01:06:30] resend okay so if you're voting on [01:06:32] option three it is different then I'm [01:06:36] going to continue with my EDU rate [01:06:38] correct okay [01:06:48] no thank you Lori because that makes [01:06:51] that that makes sense [01:06:53] um I would make a motion that we choose [01:06:55] option three rates based on edus that [01:06:58] were recalculated based on site visits [01:07:00] and title quad calculations [01:07:03] with the understanding that we will [01:07:06] rewrite our regulations with this option [01:07:09] and the additional two options that were [01:07:12] provided to us [01:07:14] um based on per bedroom with a four [01:07:16] bedroom Max based on her bedroom with a [01:07:19] three bedroom Max and re-evaluate our [01:07:22] rates annually prior to town meeting [01:07:31] okay do we want to discuss this any [01:07:33] further [01:07:35] okay all is in favor [01:07:37] hi uh sorry I gotta do a roll call [01:07:41] because we're on Zoom yeah [01:07:44] uh Kelly [01:07:46] uh yes [01:07:48] Eric yes [01:07:51] Rob is yes [01:07:54] okay so we have now passed a [01:07:58] quasi-rate structure we have one for [01:08:01] this year and we will reevaluate him so [01:08:07] okay that's good [01:08:12] um [01:08:14] moving on [01:08:17] do we want are we gonna try to put the [01:08:20] betterments I guess when it comes to the [01:08:23] betterment so we're going to try putting [01:08:27] an annual town meeting or did we want to [01:08:30] have a [01:08:31] separate meeting please [01:08:36] may I interact inject again I'm not on [01:08:39] the board but [01:08:40] um [01:08:42] you may want to consider if you're doing [01:08:47] the betterments just with the sewer it's [01:08:50] a sewer decision [01:08:54] right or if you're putting it on the [01:08:56] town meeting that might be a different [01:08:58] decision right [01:09:01] does it make sense to maybe have [01:09:05] a public meeting [01:09:09] to get a sense of [01:09:12] you know to get some input more so than [01:09:15] you know just the few people that join [01:09:17] us here [01:09:21] you know talk to USDA about you know [01:09:24] what Eric had suggested and like I said [01:09:27] we're all we all have been thinking it [01:09:29] about you know putting it on the tax [01:09:31] rate as well [01:09:34] I think we're gonna have to I mean [01:09:39] absolutely we need to have like a real [01:09:41] public meeting about this [01:09:45] um [01:09:47] I I guess we do need to get the answer [01:09:50] first from USDA if they're going to [01:09:52] allow that [01:09:55] has an option because if it's [01:09:58] Narrows what we have to deal with right [01:10:01] and we should get our legal opinion back [01:10:04] about [01:10:07] um [01:10:08] exactly [01:10:09] what we need to do to make sure whatever [01:10:12] we vote on and what is done is done [01:10:14] correctly [01:10:16] whatever wording we may need [01:10:21] presented how it's you know you know I [01:10:24] like I question is it a yes or a no is [01:10:27] it a here's your option you got to pick [01:10:28] one like these are all the things that [01:10:30] I've been questioning [01:10:32] um you know for a while now and [01:10:33] personally I'm happy to reach out to [01:10:35] Greg corbo and [01:10:36] just email him you know and find out [01:10:41] yeah I mean it probably would make the [01:10:43] most sense because I mean we've been [01:10:46] working on this for a while and it might [01:10:48] be easier with you and if you have [01:10:50] follow-up questions to [01:10:52] I mean you and I have been working out [01:10:55] for a while I mean we're bringing Eric [01:10:57] up just be as much [01:11:00] as much as fast as we can so you you [01:11:02] understand what questions we have as far [01:11:05] as the legalities of it so [01:11:08] I just like let's not do it the wrong [01:11:10] way so that we have to redo the it just [01:11:13] you know [01:11:14] we don't have a lot of time wait no I [01:11:18] agree you know I I do think that they're [01:11:20] you know they're waiting for us to to [01:11:23] you know we voted tonight on this which [01:11:25] I think is great it's Forward Motion you [01:11:28] know it's for moving forward but um yeah [01:11:30] we have to keep going [01:11:33] for sure [01:11:37] do you have any objections Eric to Kelly [01:11:40] contact and legal no not at all I'd like [01:11:44] to get copied on it [01:11:45] track of the conversation because this [01:11:48] is stuff that is new to me but yeah no [01:11:52] man absolutely again it makes most sense [01:11:55] to keep going [01:11:57] but it's too over good at [01:12:01] and I think betterments have to be voted [01:12:03] at town meeting anyway [01:12:05] right but is it you know do we [01:12:08] is it something that we try to get on [01:12:10] the warrant for the annual time meeting [01:12:12] or you know like Lori said if it's only [01:12:14] going to affect sewer users then is it [01:12:17] you know a special meeting or or does it [01:12:20] need to be like a ballot I don't know [01:12:22] these are the questions that I keep [01:12:24] asking but I don't you know I just want [01:12:25] some clarification what [01:12:27] I think we're pretty we're a lot closer [01:12:30] to having a [01:12:31] some items to present in terms of a [01:12:34] choice correct just even after tonight [01:12:37] so yeah [01:12:40] so should we schedule a public meeting [01:12:43] about this or do you want to wait [01:12:46] that may take time and [01:12:49] May 3rd here today so yeah [01:12:54] um you know our annual [01:12:57] do we know what we need [01:13:00] we meet Monday right so maybe by Monday [01:13:05] we'll just put something in to discuss [01:13:07] sewer in our agenda for Monday [01:13:10] and [01:13:12] maybe we should discuss it then see if [01:13:14] we get some legal answers but [01:13:17] yeah by then [01:13:19] which it may or may not happen I don't [01:13:21] know but they [01:13:24] yeah he's pretty good [01:13:27] it's been a while because I talked to [01:13:30] him [01:13:33] I mean really The Next Step it would be [01:13:35] to have [01:13:36] like more of a public hearing right [01:13:42] Lori are you willing to come out [01:13:45] um for that [01:13:46] if you know if we do a public [01:13:48] informational thing on the betterments [01:13:51] when are you thinking [01:13:54] well that's that's okay that's our next [01:13:55] thought yeah [01:13:58] I will try to make myself available you [01:14:02] know spending on my schedule [01:14:07] I would say we're talking [01:14:10] probably yeah I have a very busy week [01:14:13] next I have something every [01:14:18] um the week after I am wide open [01:14:23] um I'll trust that Nicole you will keep [01:14:25] me in the loop and let me know [01:14:28] when you're going to schedule that [01:14:32] of course if they're not scheduled [01:14:35] schedule okay [01:14:36] oh [01:14:38] really was true for the week of the 15th [01:14:44] yeah we're probably gonna need the [01:14:45] school are we going to try to do [01:14:49] a zoom thing I mean I think we'll have [01:14:52] enough room in the municipal building [01:14:55] um [01:14:58] it's got to be kind of car I know [01:15:02] I mean we can certainly try zoom in [01:15:05] getting the word out there and [01:15:08] um [01:15:09] you know in person [01:15:12] I think if we did it in person I think [01:15:15] I would be [01:15:17] I would think we need the school [01:15:20] just in case [01:15:23] yeah yeah basically we have more than 30 [01:15:25] people in our [01:15:27] space it's a full capacity yeah exactly [01:15:33] I mean that's up to you I mean do you [01:15:35] think we want to try to just do it over [01:15:36] Zoom [01:15:39] I could try and see what the [01:15:40] participation is [01:15:43] I don't know [01:15:45] if people are really [01:15:47] worried about it [01:15:49] they've just accepted it so [01:15:52] yeah I don't I [01:15:55] don't know yeah why don't we shoot what [01:15:57] do you want to shoot for the 16th you [01:15:59] said [01:15:59] I'm I can do the 16th [01:16:03] what can I [01:16:09] um [01:16:10] someone did bring up Zoom is not good [01:16:12] for elderly [01:16:17] good point or do we do we Zoom it from [01:16:20] can we Zoom it from the municipal [01:16:22] building I mean we normally have [01:16:24] coverage there [01:16:26] is there a way for people to ask [01:16:29] questions [01:16:30] if we're at the municipal building if [01:16:32] they want to stay online [01:16:36] not really that would alleviate a bigger [01:16:39] crowd [01:16:40] do we know why Zoom is bad for elderly [01:16:46] maybe just accessibility [01:16:48] yeah [01:16:50] it's true I almost didn't have a working [01:16:52] computer tonight [01:16:56] you know just access and and the you [01:16:59] know capability to do it [01:17:02] um I mean I can be a town hall and I can [01:17:05] hook my computer up so it comes over the [01:17:08] screen [01:17:09] for zoom [01:17:10] and do and do Zoom do that well like I [01:17:14] can be in town hall and then like if you [01:17:16] guys weren't there or if you know just [01:17:19] to save room for maybe if there's 30 [01:17:21] elderly people that want to come I don't [01:17:24] know if you do it it's a townhouse [01:17:26] I have no service [01:17:30] we can't do hardwood TV like no no [01:17:34] well I'd go into the municipal office [01:17:37] building too with with the elderly I'm [01:17:39] elderly [01:17:42] so do you want to meet do you want to [01:17:44] meet at the at the municipal building [01:17:46] and zoom it and then there's both [01:17:48] options and hopefully [01:17:50] we don't get more than 34 people [01:17:53] yeah [01:17:56] I mean let's try if we have to cancel I [01:18:00] and Lord that way Lori doesn't have to [01:18:02] drive out either right which you know [01:18:04] kind of helpful yeah for sure I don't [01:18:06] mind whichever whichever is more [01:18:08] convenient I can I can do that but thank [01:18:11] you [01:18:14] I mean [01:18:17] I mean it probably is a [01:18:19] little better when we can put the stuff [01:18:21] on the screen for a lot of people and [01:18:23] they can especially navigate the screens [01:18:25] they can see stuff right [01:18:32] we're not going to be looking for a vote [01:18:35] no correct you can present okay just [01:18:38] getting the getting the the numbers out [01:18:40] there to people [01:18:43] I saw the options and maybe we can maybe [01:18:45] allow us to test the waters a little bit [01:18:47] to see [01:18:49] yeah [01:18:51] that was kind of my thought on yeah [01:18:53] getting the getting the public involved [01:18:56] more just to see you know [01:18:58] that feedback [01:19:02] for sure [01:19:03] so what time we want to do [01:19:07] six [01:19:09] six or six thirty I'm good either [01:19:13] okay 6 p.m you want to do six Rob is [01:19:16] that good for you [01:19:18] yeah let's try to bump it up a little [01:19:20] earlier just to [01:19:22] give some time [01:19:27] okay for me [01:19:30] you're going to be voting you're going [01:19:32] to be discussing the betterments [01:19:36] correct okay will you be inviting anyone [01:19:38] from USDA [01:19:42] I don't think we need them do it [01:19:48] go about it when we meet yeah I mean [01:19:55] it's our death we're just discussing how [01:19:58] to pay the debt [01:20:00] off I mean if Joe wants to call me you [01:20:03] guys are always welcome more in the [01:20:05] Marriott yeah [01:20:13] so 6 p.m it is [01:20:16] okay [01:20:18] and we'll do zoom and [01:20:21] and in person in person [01:20:25] I mean the problem even with the school [01:20:27] is we don't have the hook up for the TV [01:20:30] system at school so correct [01:20:34] it's always hard for people to hear [01:20:36] oh and it would be good you know to have [01:20:38] it the YouTube and and or Zoom just for [01:20:41] people to be able to refer back to it [01:20:44] if they can't make it [01:20:48] and we may need to have another one an [01:20:50] additional one [01:20:55] yes [01:20:55] yeah well hopefully we got time let's [01:20:59] see [01:21:01] assistant talk on the 16th [01:21:04] six o'clock yep [01:21:07] May 16th sixth yeah [01:21:13] um [01:21:13] okay [01:21:15] before we move on do we have any [01:21:17] questions for Lori [01:21:19] before we move on from the peanut [01:21:22] gallery or anywhere [01:21:26] I can take uh I'll take it back Lori [01:21:29] okay what do I have to do here this I [01:21:32] think I can just take it okay got it [01:21:34] yeah I got it thank you guys [01:21:40] 16. all right bye [01:21:47] okay [01:21:49] the next item on the agenda would be [01:21:52] just the sewer discussing the sewer [01:21:55] which we've been talking about all night [01:21:56] but um [01:21:58] we had talked about [01:22:01] uh get an RFP out there for oversight [01:22:05] management of the plants and operations [01:22:07] and stuff [01:22:09] and also as we build out [01:22:14] and um I I kind of feel that whoever [01:22:19] is going to oversee the operation the [01:22:22] management of the plants to help with [01:22:25] actually more or less help not as a [01:22:28] full-time thing [01:22:31] is going to have to work with the [01:22:33] building and development of the plants [01:22:35] to kind of work with the construction [01:22:38] um okay and I know Nicolia [01:22:42] kind of sent us some RFP stuff and [01:22:47] um [01:22:48] did you guys look over well Kelly I [01:22:52] don't know if Eric was copied on that [01:22:53] yet [01:22:54] Eric were you copied on any of the RFP [01:22:57] proposals [01:22:58] yeah were you talking about a clerk of [01:23:01] the works [01:23:03] it'd be a clerical in in a sense while [01:23:06] the building's going on they would act [01:23:08] somewhat as a clerk of the works but [01:23:11] usually whoever you kind of want to [01:23:13] bring [01:23:15] that group of people as the thing goes [01:23:17] online [01:23:19] so they would stay afterwards [01:23:23] after it's running and help oversee yeah [01:23:26] the operation of a new plant [01:23:29] because there's always [01:23:31] stuff [01:23:33] with a new [01:23:34] nothing ever is going to turn on and run [01:23:37] perfect so you [01:23:38] so it's always good to have [01:23:41] help when the management when the new [01:23:43] plan starts up and we have to it's part [01:23:47] of the letter of conditions the hat is [01:23:49] to have an oversight [01:23:51] of that in place [01:23:54] we're going to create a position [01:23:57] pretty much [01:23:59] foreign [01:24:02] position there's companies out there [01:24:04] that have [01:24:07] people that do this [01:24:10] management management companies and [01:24:13] they [01:24:15] there's some really large ones there's [01:24:17] some local ones but [01:24:20] basically can you can all [01:24:22] help us work through this this situation [01:24:25] I I really don't want us to get into a [01:24:27] situation like we were with wheel right [01:24:29] and [01:24:30] where we get down to the end and [01:24:34] you know everybody's pointing fingers at [01:24:35] everybody else it was this person's [01:24:37] fault that person's fault so [01:24:39] so we spend six million dollars now [01:24:40] we're spending another seven million [01:24:43] dollars again so [01:24:45] absolutely no we need somebody that [01:24:47] works for us [01:24:49] a consultant that knows what they're [01:24:51] looking at and [01:24:53] is not [01:24:55] the same person as you know the design [01:24:58] work or I mean we needed somebody [01:25:00] neutral essentially [01:25:02] working for us [01:25:05] correct and also they they don't want to [01:25:08] put it on our superintendent either to [01:25:09] try to over there's a lot of stuff [01:25:12] that's going to be going on the next [01:25:14] year and I it's it's beyond [01:25:17] what they're paid to do and [01:25:20] a lot of it's going to be beyond their [01:25:22] real knowledge of [01:25:23] how things are done I agree completely [01:25:30] um [01:25:30] gosh trying to look at my old emails [01:25:34] I just tried to look quickly and um I [01:25:37] will be honest but it's definitely [01:25:38] buried I can resend that all too and [01:25:42] maybe I think there was a few different [01:25:44] ones there's one from DPC because they [01:25:46] do it right now in Orange so [01:25:48] um I have a few different ones that is [01:25:50] on my computer at work in in the in the [01:25:53] USDA folder [01:25:55] so maybe we can get that and we can [01:25:57] discuss this also on Monday [01:26:00] because we're running late already [01:26:02] tonight and [01:26:04] it's [01:26:07] makeup I'm trying to make a decision [01:26:10] yeah I would like to kind of just take a [01:26:13] look I remember reading them but to be [01:26:15] honest I would definitely want to reread [01:26:17] them again and and see if something fits [01:26:21] or add you know I I do agree that maybe [01:26:24] we put it out there now for for the [01:26:27] length of the project and then it would [01:26:28] be that you know [01:26:29] not to oversee once it's up and running [01:26:34] absolutely I [01:26:36] I really feel like it's [01:26:41] it's for [01:26:42] a smooth transition because [01:26:45] there's always stuff always nothing's [01:26:48] perfect no they I mean and I think with [01:26:52] you know feel right being a prime [01:26:53] example I think there were change orders [01:26:55] in the field that [01:26:56] people did themselves not having the [01:26:59] knowledge and can do that [01:27:02] why it wasn't in compliance from [01:27:08] from there that's not Rabbit Hole again [01:27:13] yeah [01:27:14] um [01:27:15] do we have anything else [01:27:25] we adjourned [01:27:27] second wait a second all those in favor [01:27:30] Kelly [01:27:31] yes [01:27:33] Eric yes sure yes [01:27:39] thank you everybody have a good night [01:27:41] yeah