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These meeting notes are AI-generated and unofficial. They are provided for convenience and are not official Town records or approved municipal minutes. Verify all details using the source video and official Town documents.
The Hardwick Board of Selectmen convened to discuss proposed sewer rates and betterments with Lori Stevens from ARCAP. Three options for both rates (per bedroom with 4-bedroom maximum, per bedroom with 3-bedroom maximum, and Equivalent Dwelling Units - EDU) were presented, aiming to meet an estimated $850,000 annual Enterprise Fund cost and a $2.8 million betterment cost. The Board voted to adopt the EDU-based rate structure for the current year, with a commitment to rewrite regulations to encompass all three options and re-evaluate rates annually. Discussions also covered the possibility of shifting more betterment costs to the general tax base, the necessity of legal counsel for implementation, and scheduling a public informational meeting on betterments for May 16th. Additionally, the Board briefly addressed the need for a Request for Proposals (RFP) for independent oversight management of the new sewer plants.
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Open our selectman's meeting today on a the agenda is a visitation from our cap about rate discussions and discussing the sewer then adjournment so if you guys are all set maybe we can
Get started with Lori Stevens from our cap and overview of what she kind of did over the last week for us with the additional information with rate I should say possible rate
Information are you all set yes I am I'm going to share my screen oh you have to enable participation for me to do that please oh
News to me there we go I don't really know where to do that I think last time you had to make me
I did I had to make you host I was trying to just allow you to share your screen without doing that that uh just so I can let people in as they come in I will make you hosts
Sure let me know if there's something you want me to do to allow people come in or however I'll be happy to do that let me know when you're ready you're all set you are the host now okay
[Music] okay I have on my screen uh we talked about rates for the sewer Enterprise fund and we have three different options and I went over this during the week with Nicole
And uh first can everyone see that big enough okay yeah all right so we have rates for the sewer Enterprise fund this column is rates based on a four bedroom maximum so this is a uniform
Rate method now you unit is per bedroom and units were counted per bedroom with a four bedroom maximum the next one I'll go through these in detail but the next one is the same similar system but it was weighted on a three bedroom
Maximum and the last column is rates based on edu's your current edu system so existing residential edu's were used in commercial and Industrial edus were recalculated based
On site visits and title V calculations and we went over that before I can give you more detail if you would like later the metered flow was converted based on the allocation of 32 912 gallons per year
Here on this four bedroom the First Column comes out if you calculate the units sorry about that if you calculate the units there's 1274 residential units Quabbin is 49
Industrial and Commercial has 84.
Eagle Hill school is 97 Municipal is 25.
The churches were allocated nine units this comes out to a cost with one bedroom about 550 two bedroom it's about a thousand bedroom four bedrooms so on
So this is the cost per property type so we'd see most of the cost is coming out here in the residential area about seven hundred thousand and then this Quabbin
Commercial industrial Eagle Hill School Municipal and the churches and coming out to about 850 000 and that is the estimated anticipated sewer Enterprise fund would be 850
000 based on the calculations in the new system the new wastewater treatment plants in the middle column is a three bedroom maximum so you'll see what goes down is the residential numbers
Quabbin stays the same all the other numbers stay the same cost per bedroom slightly increased one bedroom is 568 two bedroom is 1137 three bedroom one thousand seven
Hundred you know approximately and and this again this sums up to what our goal is about eight hundred and fifty thousand anyone have any questions on that so far
Okay the other option is to using the equivalent dwelling units so that would be per unit is per equivalent dwelling units the residential units is only
482 because we're not counting per bedroom and we're saying each unit is the same now if you have a duplex that would be counted as two different units a residential would be 49
Commercial industrial is 73 based on the units that are there Eagle Hill school is 83 Municipal is 13 and churches are four
One one dwelling would be one thousand two hundred a duplex two thousand four hundred Triplex 3600 and again this sums up to the 850 000.
Because um go ahead we want to take some questions on this while you're since you got the rates or do you did you want to add more no I just I just was going to open it up to any questions or comments or how these were derived or
I'd be happy to answer what I can Kelly you got anything no no you think I'm good at this point
How about you Eric well that I don't know what the rates mean I guess I'm feeling stupid because this we want to get to 850 000 that's uh annual cost of the Enterprise fund that is what the
Estimated cost for running the sewer system when the two treatment plants are up and running okay so these rates would be essentially annual numbers correct so right now I think your
Your Enterprise fund the the budget is a little bit less than this I'm not sure what it's running this time but we were told from the engineering firm that with the two treatment plants and the new pump station time labor
Expenses chemicals so that would be about 850 000 so that's the number that I'm trying to build to all your rate numbers and rate development has to come up to 850 000.
And I and I assume I'll just speak out that down the road we discovered that the budget is going to be 9.50 all these methods would work the math would just have to be revised correct I would I would be leaving Nicole with the spreadsheets right so
She could uh punch in the new numbers and go age 50 is you know if your insurance rates go down your rates go down if gas prices go down it's going to go down you know and that's included in this now what is also included
Is to pay off the three existing loans that you have but it doesn't include any payoff for the new loan because that's part of the betterment right okay I was going to ask about the existing debt so this is this is projected what it's
Going to cost to run operation once once this job is done correct
And again I mean if you wanted to make an assumption that next year year after year after that you want to instead of 850 you want it to be 8 20.
You could do that but the point of this exercise is coming up with a method that you can divvy up whatever that final cost is that you want it to be so I was told to go with the 850 000 based on Consulting the engineers
Talking to Scott talking to Nicole about the indirect costs between departments and all of that foreign it really is not it's not tied to whatever betterment scheme we come up
With and it's not really tied to the taxes this is really just like to be for being on the system that's very that's a very good point it is not tied to either although
Sometimes I find communities if they go with a per dwelling unit they might do their betterments for dwelling if they go with their linear foot Road Frontage for their betterment then you don't do your sewer rate by that so you know you could
Your uniform rate method could be with the betterments also if you want to do it per bedroom or per dwelling but you don't have to so they are not to tied together thanks
Yeah this is this is more to figure out if we wanted to change our current system of charging rates of how we charge the rates at this point more so than the betterment
So completely different kind of animal at this right well I would like to tell you about one of the advantages of doing the per bedroom method is you might have a
Someone in a small house maybe a senior couple in the small house they're paying per bedroom and they only have a two bedroom house so it's not paying the same as someone with a four bedroom or three bedroom and you can see that in the rates paid
By Quabbin that residential unit down here it's about 35 000 here about forty thousand on the per dwelling unit it's about sixty thousand all right
Okay for me you comfortable Eric yep I mean I I personally
I like to change at least between three and brought some numbers a little closer that we that was true a wide range here of from 500 basically two thousand dollars for a yearly cost
I'm still a little concerned with Seventeen hundred dollars on a three bedroom house knowing that quite a few of the houses probably have two people in them the three bedroom and they could be elderly also
But like I said it's just I guess I haven't really made a decision yet I don't know about the rest if Eric or Kelly have you had a decision on what you feel is true I guess uh I kind of agree with you rob that the looking at the three
Bedroom Max does bring it up you know a little bit like a happy medium I lost we're still addressing it as you know her bedroom but it's um you know that that Gap from you know one unit
Where we're paying you know a little over a thousand dollars now and that that jumps it's like it it puts it in half I kind of I have a hard time swallowing that I guess that we're actually going backwards so
I don't know I I do like the option of the the three bedroom Max but I'm I'm kind of torn with what we're doing now works foreign
My question last week was you know are we accounting for some of those you know commercial units that were maybe overcharged or undercharged and it sounds like by site visits that that was the case like those that was all looked at when when Lori and um Nicole visited
Places to maybe address those discrepancies so they I guess I'm kind of I'm kind of torn between the three bedroom Max and you know the way we currently do it
Yeah I guess one of my issues with doing in a bedroom how some people Define a bedroom I know the title five has a mission for how they right qualify homes and rooms yeah means of a grass in a
Closet right yes in Massachusetts sometimes you have a ceiling height it has to have at least seven feet in One Direction you know minimum so you can't count a hallway
Right yeah because the hallway could have a closet and yeah yeah I'm not so worried about I'm more worried about people coming in and saying well that's a Dan that's an office you know and we'll be getting into those discussions right
Just as I mean honestly it's a matter of time you should just get through them but it couldn't tie it up for years of people asking for abatements I worked with one community in this method where they before they sent out
Your bedroom counts they sent a letter to each person we're redoing our doing this based on the number of bedrooms our assessors records say you have X number of bedrooms if you do not agree with that please give us a call
And we'll set up a site visit and a couple of things one person took out a wall because they wanted a big bedroom and obviously it went down it wasn't four bedrooms anymore it was now three and that was obvious and you know and some other people wanted to it not to be a bedroom so they didn't have
To pay as much and it hurts but it you know that's kind of you either that's how you have to develop it yeah right we just recently had a duplex take
A wall down to make a single family home well we don't we don't have any way to meter this that's obviously our problem right
If we go through this with abatements or I've gone through this with abatements because people say they haven't been using it you know an apartment that is not rented you've got to also figure that it's possible to rent it so it has value it
Gets tricky and then and then going around to see I don't know if we have that kind of Manpower I I guess to the the point of I I
Understand we're trying to this the most part elderly because I I hear quada States basically being singled out here or see it being said we've mentioned elderly if we stayed the same and created a
Senior discount is that may be a better option and we may have to adjust the the edu rate and create a some kind of a senior discount which would have to
Obviously a bylaw realm to give some parameters of what who would qualify somebody foreign a can of worms there if you're going to allow a senior discount
What's to say that someone who doesn't have the means is you know where do you stop those discounts at well I know the state has like when they reimburse people for fees and stuff they have income
As well as a lot of the stuff people that obviously have to if they wanted it they would have to ask for it it wouldn't just be just be an automatic in a sense it would be some kind of an
Abatement in a way right I don't know if that would get a little convoluted but the rate with the actual rate yeah because we go back to
Back to change the rate schedule what the edu's now I think it's gonna we're gonna follow suit with whatever we do with abatements that's the only reason and that shifts the cost onto those without abatements everybody else
Right which is always what happens in yeah do we know how much how many people are not paying do we have a figure for uh non-payment
I don't have a fingerprint on payment but we are a little over half collected but we are we're just sending out a bill you know the bills are just going just well so the second Bill isn't due until the end of May yeah and we've collected about I
Think I looked today it was about 440 that we've collected so far 450.
So I mean over the last couple years we we've been getting 100 of our bills paid would probably evade 20-ish properties a year and then actually there's probably
20 or so that don't pay some that are so far in the rears that a few of these buildings have been kind of abandoned I think we're just keep tallying up on a few of them yeah it becomes a lien on their taxes like on their taxes yeah right they get paid
Eventually because even if we sell the lien if we have lean auctions then the next you know they do get paid and we do have we have had sewer retained earnings every year that I've been there so they're spend money you know back so I don't know what the collection is but I know that what we've collected and
Budgeted has been enough because you know we get retained earnings back I mean some people are slow just slow on paying too we may not get paid they'll pay the following year at some point yeah
It's a good question for The Collector if Laurie here some communities set up you know a a payment plan so if you have people who are having trouble paying
You want to include what's coming up too so they have a monthly payment plan instead of every six months paid we've got that yes and so I think we offer that when it when it needs to be yeah excellent yeah
I can get the previous year collection rate though for the you know for the past few years I can get that from tomorrow from accounting
I mean you guys want to discuss this anymore do you want to move on to the abatements and then maybe discuss them both together so information I'm good with that Rob yeah it's good
If you don't mind Lori you want to go over your abatement numbers the betterments correct sorry big difference okay so these I just put blue so it's different color than the green we had so
We can tell them apart so these are betterments and you wanted them on the similar scenarios as before betterments are based on a uniform rate method the rate is the uniform rate is per bedroom four bedroom maximum in the middle
Column is a three bedroom maximum and these are betterments based on edu's based on a uniform rate method existing residential edus were used commercial and Industrial edus we'll recalculated based on site visits
And title V calculations which we went over before the metered flow was converted based on the allocation of 32 912 gallons per year and that's similar to the system you're using now so
Residential units on the four bedroom Max there's 1227 Quabbin is 49. commercial industrial 74.
Eagleville School is 97.
Municipal is 25 churches are nine this is the total number of units the USDA loan is 5 million six hundred and eighty one thousand half of the USDA loan this would be better the other half
Is going to become the tax base so that's 2 million 840 500.
So this amount if you divide this into that it comes up with 1917 dollars about so let's see how it adds up the residential betterments about 2.3
Million squabbing is ninety three thousand almost ninety four thousand commercial Industrials 141 000 929 Eagle Hill school is 186
000 Municipal is 48 almost 49 000 and churches are 17 000. and we talked at the last meeting that you wanted to con um include the municipal buildings in the betterments even though half of the money
Is going on the tax base so one bedroom is 1917 two bedrooms 300 3835
And so on any questions about that before we move on okay this is the three bedroom so your residential units go down everything else stays depression pretty much the same this is going to be slightly Higher One Thousand nine
Hundred and thirty six and this is your cost for residential commercial Robin Eagle Hill School Municipal and churches and again both of these this one and this one here add up to our Target number which is half the alone amount
And this is a betterment cost per house you know it's it's slightly more than the other one but you don't have the four bedroom in there and this column is based on the current edu's betterments are based on the uniform rate method existing edus reused
Commercial and industrial edu's recalculated based on site business visits and title V calculations the metered flow was converted based on the allocation of 32 912 gallons per year so this is the number of residential units a duplex would be two units
Triplex would be three commercial industrial 70 73 Eagle Hill School is 83 minutes as full as 13. churches of four that's adds up to 407 and the betterment
Per unit here is four thousand dollars and again per unit times the betterment this is a cost per property type and again this adds up to a target number of approximately 2.8 million
X now betterments can be financed over a period that you folks decide upon is it 10 years is it 20 years 30 years and charge at the interest rate that
You're paying up to 2 percent more interest that you're paying which is 1.375 percent and that figure stays solid throughout the life of this long the interest rate stays solid throughout
The life of the loan I'm I'm coming late to this but have you
Guys talked about putting this more on the tax base the whole thing instead of just 50 percent of it that would be a decision in your letter of conditions from the USDA it's
Noted that half will go on the tax base and the other half will go on the sewer users being an Enterprise fund it is separate so it's supposed to pay its own bills but you can say
The general public does benefit from clean water coming out of the treatment plants going into the river so I don't know if you could justify all of the expense going on non-summer users
I hope I don't get shot for what I just said no I think Eric I so I'll I mean I'll back you up there because I think we've all thought that to see you know what what would the lesser of the evil look like right
This is a lot this is a big burden on a small amount of people and so if we split it over a larger amount of people that burden may not be so much so you you just said I think out loud what we're all thinking and have thought for or pondered but I think that would be
A conversation first of all with USDA to see if they would be willing to even you know allow us to entertain that and then you know possibly another vote another thing is now we're dividing it among the sewer users those who are
Connected sewer users who are not connected I mean they're not sewer users but if they're along the line when you put the fines and did you require everybody to connect and if you did not you might have people along the line you could
Connect but have chosen not to and I've seen sometimes those people are better but some communities have if the super line goes in front of your house you have to connect no matter what then other people say well you need to connect but I can't just connect because
I need a grinder pump this that and the other thing so if you pay for that then I will connect so then they'd have to pay a betterment and for construction of their line which is you know
A few grand at least and the way I've always understood it the betterment is the potential for a piece of land it betters the uh you know future house
Lot so that that would be a way to figure for for Frontage I've seen that mentioned but that's not here we're not looking at that well do you bring up a good point if there's sewer
In front of your house and you can connect your sewer is good your property is worth more that's why your property is bettered that's why they call it a betterment right and I don't know if your regulations say and I think I
Suggested that you visit this say that anyone changing house you have to automatically connect to the Sewer or if your septic system fails you can't replace your septic system you have to automatically connect to the Sewer I thought that's the way we
Again I'm I missed 10 years of this but that's I I think we were talking about that at the beginning yeah that's not forcing people to hook up unless they were in failure correct I think um you have to create a
District also to do stuff like that that they if you're going to enforce it everybody ties into it I think you have to like create a District zone and outline the area people are going to be required to tie in
It could be wrong but I was told a while back the case that sounds pretty accurate
Well Lori just to clarify if we chose to stay for our rates with our edus we don't have to choose pdus for betterments and I'm just using that as an example I'm sorry I just I just called up on the
Screen to chat because I was originally had this so can you read this Nicole because they're not asking I think I think you're the boy you're they're asking the question I'd be happy to answer if you want me to can you read that guys
Well I mean well we'll take questions from people in a minute okay sure sure if you respond to Kelly first okay I'm sorry Kelly I was I saw that text what was your question again I'm sorry if we choose one method of charging
Our rates we don't necessarily have to pick the same method for implementing betterments correct correct okay I just wanted I just wanted to clarify that just so that I understood that correctly and anyone else that you know questioned it thank you as long as it's a uniform
Rate method you know it's the house is it the bedroom it could be uniform it could be linear foot of Road Frontage you can't say if it's not logical you can't adopt it no I mean I'm I'm looking at these three options thinking that you know I think these are three you know reasonable
Options in front of us and so say we stayed with edus for our rates but decided that we wanted to go with the the three bedroom Max for our betterments we can do that yes but that would be a question I would suggest that you talk to your attorney
Before you put all the wheels in motion oh I've seen that done before you know okay okay fair enough quite often people are doing the betterments in the don't enter into it because that was decided upon long ago
Laura did you want to answer uh this question here is Columbus Estates metered he's I'm not sure if Robin Estates is needed are they on the water system you're on real red water yep okay so
They are meteored but the question is if it was can the actual usage be divided between the number of bedrooms and I think this question is related to the betterment or the rates because if it's related to the betterment you could only better the
Property properties so I don't know if the people are renters or owners right yeah it's yeah so I don't know if they actually own or I believe if they do not own
Because it's one bill that goes to that whole property correct I think they rent I'm sure I'm sure it's passed on oh absolutely yeah I agree Kelly yeah you cannot Levy a betterment on someone who doesn't own property all the betterments are going to be registered as
D to the owner yeah do the property yeah this question was relative to the rates though they just he just okay said it was yeah he's questioning the rates oh okay okay 3A line oh stubs at every house along the line
So they put in stubs yeah well for stubs it wouldn't be relevant to the rates because you don't rate charge a rate if they're unless they're connected
Yeah I think he may have just been stating that anyone along the line has the capability to hook up when we were talking about yeah and we'd have to see I only included those along the line who are connected hooked up
Other ones who are not connected you have to decide if they're not connected and if they can connect by a grinder pump or is it a gravity connection
You're off of that line it's a force main up there right so do you give them a betterment even though like someone who can flow by gravity they'll have like a thousand dollar better man is the other person is a four thousand dollar betterment but it's going to be
A couple Grand to get a pot grinder pump in there should you charge them the same amount of betterment or do you do reduce it by the cost of the grinder pump sure decision and that would bring on a few more Parcels to
Bring the rates down but I don't know how many Parcels along the Route that aren't connected on some of the older streets and if we did look at Frontage then
There are another 10 parcels of at least and in that case you can better people that are that don't have a they don't have a structure there
Correct I think more and more I'm liking the whole okay we see what it does to the taxes is before we go and betterments on people that aren't even hooked up and I don't know
Well I would be happy if you get me the numbers of the people who have access to the Shoreline through their property not through another person's property I could include those numbers in there
From what I've hooked up since they built the line you're probably looking at like another 30 35 okay I have access it's it's a it's an okay is that will right too Rob
I don't think this this stubs are only put in when they found a line going up to Hardwick Center yeah all right I believe is an actual District
Layout right where you've had hookups and anybody in the area has to look up basically and additionally when they run a sewer line they put a stub to the property line if they haven't put a stub to the property line it's kind of hard to
Charge them a betterment because then they have to dig up in the public Street to connect to the sewer line so I don't know the number of people if you say they're 30 foreign so if just
So it would go from go down to 3 000 about 900.
If you had 30 more connections but there we're talking about open land with no stubs and as you say it would be more of a a lot more of a task to hook up we'd have to break the line
You know charging someone a betterment and they want to hook up and then they have to get a street opening permit and pay for the contractor you know then it's going to cost them more than the cost of the betterment yeah
Okay I forgot with the per bedroom basis how would we handle the betterment to like a stub
Yeah so if you're talking about the per bedroom and someone is not connected when they do connect you charge a connection fee that is similar to the betterment amount
They have a 3 3 but they want to connect they would be looking at paying about six thousand dollars to connect correct yeah
Like I said it's very limited to that one area right but there are stubs there so I don't know
Are you saying that some areas would actually even if they're not hooked up it's have have that stub that you would charge that betterment regardless at this point I find I have found communities who say the sewer lines going in
You're getting a stub you get a betterment I have communities said we'll do that if there's a structure there if there's no structure there they choose not to Levy the betterment and divide it up among everybody else most of the times I'm doing the
Betterment analysis is sewer lines are going in the ground at the time so it's pretty clear that I have the plans of the sewer and I know where it is and I know which houses are getting stubbed so this is a little bit different that we have to go back in time to see what sewer lines went wait
Were laid out and where did the property actually got stubs yeah and it's been there for seven years or so so now you charge them betterments or something that's been
There for a while yeah so wheel right in Gilbertville I don't know how old the treatment plants are so the sewer line is going to be as low as a little treatment plants the Gilbertville plant is built in 1972 with a life expectancy of 20 years
The wheel raid plant was rebuilt but turned out kind of experimentally I don't know what what its lifespan is already exceeded
Oh you guys got anything that you want to add any more questions for Lori I don't know if it's Lori's basket but I I would like to look at what the cost would be to spread this
Out across the tax base I know I'm committing suicide here I'd like to see those numbers maybe I can get together with Jen and ask her we are actually yeah actually have them
It's 50 it's 54 cents a thousand is that for the full cost of this a half the cost for the forecast okay so it's 54 cents per thousand I believe the average family home was
Something like 350 Rob do you have that DLS sheet in front of you yeah I just remember the per thousand right I think it was like a 250 000 it third Department of local Services there's a way to calculate that we did it because you know on the police station was going to be about this much
And this is how much we thought you know we thought we would be able to borrow how much this was going to be so yeah 300 about 325 175 dollars per household
Not just 325 right yeah 175 per household well and are better off going with the 50 54 cents per thousand so if you know if you want to mislead people thinking
That yeah they might have a eight hundred thousand dollar house based on the evaluation of your home so you'd have to do the maximum of the 54 cents per thousand right is that
Off I am I'll have to confirm that's the correct information but that's what I have here so and the
USDA would have some say in the matter and because it's already written in your letter of condition so I don't you know you would have to talk to yeah we'd have to have another chicken with them for sure yeah and we'd have to get it through town
Meeting but we have to do that with the betterments anyway right correct the betterments have to go to a boat yes and the Boost in taxes is 50 of that's
Going to happen anyway correct by any of our plans here correct no yeah there's no free options no
But like I said you know what we're tasked to do is find the best option for for anyone and everyone involved you know the town voted to do this project the town voted to borrow this money
Yeah well we could come up with a betterment Solution on one end and then also let people kind of choose okay we'll put it out there as 100 taxation if the right yeah and then we could have a
Betterment solution that we would offer if didn't want to do that do that yeah and and again I I want I think hey we need to get this moving so we need to be having these meetings these
Information public meetings whatever we need to have but I want clarification from legal on how we have to you know present this and do this so that we're doing it the right way well we have numbers man go ahead Nicole
If you can get me the number of potential people spoke up to the Sewer who were given a sewer tie but never hooked up and are not being built I would imagine Scott has that
He I'm sure he has that for 32A line but the older lines I don't know Gloria it sounds like from what Rob was saying they weren't given an option down in Gilbertville and wheel right if it's a district they had to hook up they
Might that I did I understand that right Rob yeah I believe that you had 100 build out right because I think the size of the properties everywhere they had to hook up okay like the size of the parcels you know for septics wouldn't be feasible so I think they they had to hook up
Yeah because I actually want to say I believe the offices down Barton yeah I believe they [Music] oh like I could be wrong but I seem to remember them digging down there yeah make a connection
I'm sure things weren't working so hot thereafter it's an empty for a long time so now we do have a bunch of numbers we can cut and paste and put together some sort of saying
Choices to present right well so but the rates are on us correct the rates are one of the things that you need to we have to do yeah right and I think they want you to do it quickly because
They want to move forward with the long enema but go back to the rates
Do we have the sewer budget yet Nicole most of it yes but some of the debt we don't have yet from UniBank I'm afraid the rates are going to go out through the roof I'm not sure yet we have you know Scott's projections
Debt Service you should have that but you mean the interim financing for this project I mean the 1.8 million dollars that we just borrowed yeah I I think it'd be a good idea if maybe we could tie these numbers to the
Actual budget that's coming up it's very close to 850 right it's not over 850 correct not so far I just like I said I the the interest because of how that you know everything went up
And all the tech the feds hiked everything uh I don't know what that interest is going to be on that 1.8 it's a conversation I was gonna have with you probably tomorrow so I don't know exactly but we may want we would we may want to know that before
I mean these these these numbers could get a little crazy well I am going to set Nicole up so whatever the rate is we you can you have to decide on a format for a rate right
Whether it's 8.50 78 80.
You know all the formulas there Lori and yeah I will I will send you the whole thing I know that Joe delbow from USDA was really want to know if the decision is made because they want to release this money and they can't do it until
You've made a decision right and I have sent me an invite to have a meeting with him on Monday morning at 10 am excellent let me know if you need me to be there well in order to change the rates we're probably going to have to
At least look it's currently our whole regulation is written off the edu basis regulation pretty much pretty much balls around so we actually would have to change our regulation to change the rates
We have to change the wording in some of those documents you have to look at even our abatement process change through you know in order to change the rates so really this isn't a really quick answer
I mean if we're going to change the way that we are currently charging we just can't change the Wayward without changing how we are kind of regulations are written to the way we charge
You in the report I gave you it's definitely imperative that you revisit your regulations right I think that's been been known all along do that right yeah at least for the past year I've been involved that we've we've
Known that's going to have to be done right you can't write the regulations around a method you haven't chosen correct all right so yes we don't have time timing is of the essence so we don't really have time to
Rewrite our regulations right now get the project moving we have to go to town meeting for that for what to change the regulations I believe we can do it in-house I'd ask
Legal but we're acting as The Silver Commission now I mean they were Rewritten in 2010
They're updated I should say I'm looking at them now I don't I don't remember if it went to town I don't think it did go to town meeting I don't think so I think but there's probably I'm not trying to make trouble I'm just
Looking for land mines wow but as am I I just I don't want us to to move forward on a new rate and then oh we need to change the regulations to actually adopt the rate
Right and because we got that's also a step we I think we do each yeah so you could do your rates based on edu's that is somewhat similar to your regulations adopt your your new rates
Rewrite your regulations and then if you want based on the four bedroom or three bedroom per unit charge the following year first of all most people I I
Suggest that they visit their rates every year whether it's a one percent increase but the cost of doing business is not going down anywhere no so I think you want to
You'll have a method in a format that you can if you adopt the eat continue to do the edus you have a formula that you can revisit it every year but you also want to have in your regulations that
You have the option of other these other rates yeah or adding and adjusting people's rates during the year in case or something
Well I kind of like that idea I think my thought is that I was hoping we would actually vote on the rates tonight to be honest with you we've we've now had a few meetings about the raids we've gotten more information every time
I I do think that we have to act on it and I don't think that we're being rushed into anything I like what Lori just said you know if we continue based on edus to rewrite our our
Thank you regulations and then add these other structures in there so that we have the option and and reevaluate it next day it should be Revisited you know every May before town meeting I think if you were to decide and vote
On rates we know that is one of the requirements for you to get this these projects moving and I just I don't want you to lose out on that money well can I make a motion that we do that
That we vote to continue with this edu based rate can I can I add the other language in that we will re rewrite our regulations
Based on this and the additional two rate structures that were given to us and reevaluate next you know every year annually you know prior to the town meeting which is the budget or this Enterprise fund and I'll second that
Can I do you want me to put an option number on here this is an option you're choosing so when you go to USDA you have an option in Hand of what you voted on
The motion that we should go with the edu based option in a second that we will stay with options three which is the edu based
Rate but we will add regulations we'll add all right I can we like rescind the motion and then maybe Kelly since you added so much
Worded in the way because I think you guys are on the same page I just want to make sure this is clear only move it forward does that make sense it does Eric you want to resend your motion quickly well I moved that I resend my most sugar I'll make a motion that can I
Can I interrupt for saying Kelly no I don't want you making up have to resend okay so if you're voting on option three it is different then I'm going to continue with my EDU rate correct okay
No thank you Lori because that makes that that makes sense I would make a motion that we choose option three rates based on edus that were recalculated based on site visits and title quad calculations with the understanding that we will
Rewrite our regulations with this option and the additional two options that were provided to us based on per bedroom with a four bedroom Max based on her bedroom with a three bedroom Max and re-evaluate our rates annually prior to town meeting
Okay do we want to discuss this any further okay all is in favor hi uh sorry I gotta do a roll call because we're on Zoom yeah Kelly yes Eric yes
Rob is yes okay so we have now passed a quasi-rate structure we have one for this year and we will reevaluate him so okay that's good
Moving on do we want are we gonna try to put the betterments I guess when it comes to the betterment so we're going to try putting an annual town meeting or did we want to have a separate meeting please
May I interact inject again I'm not on the board but you may want to consider if you're doing the betterments just with the sewer it's a sewer decision
Right or if you're putting it on the town meeting that might be a different decision right does it make sense to maybe have a public meeting to get a sense of
You know to get some input more so than you know just the few people that join us here you know talk to USDA about you know what Eric had suggested and like I said we're all we all have been thinking it about you know putting it on the tax
Rate as well I think we're gonna have to I mean absolutely we need to have like a real public meeting about this I I guess we do need to get the answer
First from USDA if they're going to allow that has an option because if it's Narrows what we have to deal with right and we should get our legal opinion back about
Exactly what we need to do to make sure whatever we vote on and what is done is done correctly whatever wording we may need presented how it's you know you know I like I question is it a yes or a no is
It a here's your option you got to pick one like these are all the things that I've been questioning you know for a while now and personally I'm happy to reach out to Greg corbo and just email him you know and find out yeah I mean it probably would make the most sense because I mean we've been
Working on this for a while and it might be easier with you and if you have follow-up questions to I mean you and I have been working out for a while I mean we're bringing Eric up just be as much as much as fast as we can so you you understand what questions we have as far
As the legalities of it so I just like let's not do it the wrong way so that we have to redo the it just you know we don't have a lot of time wait no I agree you know I I do think that they're you know they're waiting for us to to
You know we voted tonight on this which I think is great it's Forward Motion you know it's for moving forward but um yeah we have to keep going for sure do you have any objections Eric to Kelly contact and legal no not at all I'd like
To get copied on it track of the conversation because this is stuff that is new to me but yeah no man absolutely again it makes most sense to keep going but it's too over good at and I think betterments have to be voted
At town meeting anyway right but is it you know do we is it something that we try to get on the warrant for the annual time meeting or you know like Lori said if it's only going to affect sewer users then is it you know a special meeting or or does it need to be like a ballot I don't know
These are the questions that I keep asking but I don't you know I just want some clarification what I think we're pretty we're a lot closer to having a some items to present in terms of a choice correct just even after tonight so yeah
So should we schedule a public meeting about this or do you want to wait that may take time and May 3rd here today so yeah you know our annual do we know what we need
We meet Monday right so maybe by Monday we'll just put something in to discuss sewer in our agenda for Monday and maybe we should discuss it then see if we get some legal answers but yeah by then
Which it may or may not happen I don't know but they yeah he's pretty good it's been a while because I talked to him I mean really The Next Step it would be to have like more of a public hearing right
Lori are you willing to come out for that if you know if we do a public informational thing on the betterments when are you thinking well that's that's okay that's our next thought yeah I will try to make myself available you
Know spending on my schedule I would say we're talking probably yeah I have a very busy week next I have something every the week after I am wide open
I'll trust that Nicole you will keep me in the loop and let me know when you're going to schedule that of course if they're not scheduled schedule okay oh really was true for the week of the 15th
Yeah we're probably gonna need the school are we going to try to do a zoom thing I mean I think we'll have enough room in the municipal building it's got to be kind of car I know
I mean we can certainly try zoom in getting the word out there and you know in person I think if we did it in person I think I would be I would think we need the school
Just in case yeah yeah basically we have more than 30 people in our space it's a full capacity yeah exactly I mean that's up to you I mean do you think we want to try to just do it over Zoom
I could try and see what the participation is I don't know if people are really worried about it they've just accepted it so yeah I don't I don't know yeah why don't we shoot what
Do you want to shoot for the 16th you said I'm I can do the 16th what can I someone did bring up Zoom is not good for elderly
Good point or do we do we Zoom it from can we Zoom it from the municipal building I mean we normally have coverage there is there a way for people to ask questions if we're at the municipal building if they want to stay online
Not really that would alleviate a bigger crowd do we know why Zoom is bad for elderly maybe just accessibility yeah it's true I almost didn't have a working computer tonight
You know just access and and the you know capability to do it I mean I can be a town hall and I can hook my computer up so it comes over the screen for zoom and do and do Zoom do that well like I
Can be in town hall and then like if you guys weren't there or if you know just to save room for maybe if there's 30 elderly people that want to come I don't know if you do it it's a townhouse I have no service we can't do hardwood TV like no no
Well I'd go into the municipal office building too with with the elderly I'm elderly so do you want to meet do you want to meet at the at the municipal building and zoom it and then there's both options and hopefully we don't get more than 34 people
Yeah I mean let's try if we have to cancel I and Lord that way Lori doesn't have to drive out either right which you know kind of helpful yeah for sure I don't mind whichever whichever is more convenient I can I can do that but thank
You I mean I mean it probably is a little better when we can put the stuff on the screen for a lot of people and they can especially navigate the screens they can see stuff right
We're not going to be looking for a vote no correct you can present okay just getting the getting the the numbers out there to people I saw the options and maybe we can maybe allow us to test the waters a little bit to see yeah
That was kind of my thought on yeah getting the getting the public involved more just to see you know that feedback for sure so what time we want to do six
Six or six thirty I'm good either okay 6 p.m you want to do six Rob is that good for you yeah let's try to bump it up a little earlier just to give some time
Okay for me you're going to be voting you're going to be discussing the betterments correct okay will you be inviting anyone from USDA I don't think we need them do it
Go about it when we meet yeah I mean it's our death we're just discussing how to pay the debt off I mean if Joe wants to call me you guys are always welcome more in the Marriott yeah
So 6 p.m it is okay and we'll do zoom and and in person in person I mean the problem even with the school is we don't have the hook up for the TV system at school so correct
It's always hard for people to hear oh and it would be good you know to have it the YouTube and and or Zoom just for people to be able to refer back to it if they can't make it and we may need to have another one an additional one
Yes yeah well hopefully we got time let's see assistant talk on the 16th six o'clock yep May 16th sixth yeah
Okay before we move on do we have any questions for Lori before we move on from the peanut gallery or anywhere I can take uh I'll take it back Lori okay what do I have to do here this I
Think I can just take it okay got it yeah I got it thank you guys 16. all right bye okay the next item on the agenda would be
Just the sewer discussing the sewer which we've been talking about all night but we had talked about get an RFP out there for oversight management of the plants and operations and stuff and also as we build out
And um I I kind of feel that whoever is going to oversee the operation the management of the plants to help with actually more or less help not as a full-time thing is going to have to work with the
Building and development of the plants to kind of work with the construction okay and I know Nicolia kind of sent us some RFP stuff and did you guys look over well Kelly I
Don't know if Eric was copied on that yet Eric were you copied on any of the RFP proposals yeah were you talking about a clerk of the works it'd be a clerical in in a sense while the building's going on they would act somewhat as a clerk of the works but
Usually whoever you kind of want to bring that group of people as the thing goes online so they would stay afterwards after it's running and help oversee yeah the operation of a new plant
Because there's always stuff with a new nothing ever is going to turn on and run perfect so you so it's always good to have help when the management when the new plan starts up and we have to it's part
Of the letter of conditions the hat is to have an oversight of that in place we're going to create a position pretty much foreign position there's companies out there that have
People that do this management management companies and they there's some really large ones there's some local ones but basically can you can all help us work through this this situation
I I really don't want us to get into a situation like we were with wheel right and where we get down to the end and you know everybody's pointing fingers at everybody else it was this person's fault that person's fault so so we spend six million dollars now we're spending another seven million
Dollars again so absolutely no we need somebody that works for us a consultant that knows what they're looking at and is not the same person as you know the design work or I mean we needed somebody neutral essentially
Working for us correct and also they they don't want to put it on our superintendent either to try to over there's a lot of stuff that's going to be going on the next year and I it's it's beyond what they're paid to do and
A lot of it's going to be beyond their real knowledge of how things are done I agree completely gosh trying to look at my old emails I just tried to look quickly and um I will be honest but it's definitely
Buried I can resend that all too and maybe I think there was a few different ones there's one from DPC because they do it right now in Orange so I have a few different ones that is on my computer at work in in the in the USDA folder so maybe we can get that and we can
Discuss this also on Monday because we're running late already tonight and it's makeup I'm trying to make a decision yeah I would like to kind of just take a look I remember reading them but to be
Honest I would definitely want to reread them again and and see if something fits or add you know I I do agree that maybe we put it out there now for for the length of the project and then it would be that you know not to oversee once it's up and running
Absolutely I I really feel like it's it's for a smooth transition because there's always stuff always nothing's perfect no they I mean and I think with
You know feel right being a prime example I think there were change orders in the field that people did themselves not having the knowledge and can do that why it wasn't in compliance from from there that's not Rabbit Hole again
Yeah do we have anything else we adjourned second wait a second all those in favor Kelly
Yes Eric yes sure yes thank you everybody have a good night yeah
[00:00:00] open our selectman's meeting [00:00:03] um today on a the agenda is [00:00:07] a visitation from our cap about rate [00:00:09] discussions [00:00:11] and [00:00:12] discussing the sewer [00:00:15] then adjournment [00:00:17] so if you guys are all set maybe we can [00:00:20] get started with Lori [00:00:22] Stevens from our cap and [00:00:26] overview of what she [00:00:29] kind of did over the last week for us [00:00:31] with the uh [00:00:33] additional information with rate [00:00:36] I should say possible rate [00:00:38] um [00:00:42] information [00:00:47] are you all set [00:00:48] yes I am I'm going to share my screen [00:00:54] oh you have to enable participation for [00:00:57] me to do that please oh [00:01:04] news to me there we go [00:01:08] um [00:01:17] I don't really know where to do that [00:01:20] I think last time you had to make me [00:01:24] I did I had to make you host I was [00:01:27] trying to just allow you to share your [00:01:29] screen without doing that [00:01:33] that uh just so I can let people in as [00:01:36] they come in [00:01:40] I will make you hosts [00:01:44] sure let me know if there's something [00:01:45] you want me to do to [00:01:48] allow people come in or however I'll be [00:01:51] happy to [00:01:52] do that let me know when you're ready [00:01:54] you're all set you are the host now okay [00:02:05] [Music] [00:02:07] okay I have on my screen uh we talked [00:02:10] about rates for the sewer Enterprise [00:02:12] fund and we have three different options [00:02:17] and I went over this during the week [00:02:20] with Nicole [00:02:23] and uh first can everyone see that [00:02:27] big enough okay yeah all right so we [00:02:31] have [00:02:32] um rates for the sewer Enterprise fund [00:02:34] this column is rates based on a four [00:02:38] bedroom maximum so this is a uniform [00:02:41] rate method [00:02:43] now you unit is per bedroom and units [00:02:46] were counted per bedroom with a four [00:02:48] bedroom maximum [00:02:51] the next one [00:02:52] um I'll go through these in detail but [00:02:54] the next one is the same similar system [00:02:56] but it was weighted on a three bedroom [00:02:59] maximum [00:03:01] and the last column is rates based on [00:03:04] edu's your current edu system [00:03:07] so existing residential [00:03:11] edu's were used in commercial and [00:03:15] Industrial edus were recalculated based [00:03:18] on site visits and title V calculations [00:03:21] and we went over that before I can give [00:03:23] you more detail if you would like later [00:03:26] the metered flow was converted based on [00:03:29] the allocation of 32 [00:03:33] 912 gallons per year [00:03:39] here on this four bedroom the First [00:03:41] Column comes out if you calculate the [00:03:44] units [00:03:48] sorry about that [00:03:51] if you calculate the units there's [00:03:56] 1274 residential units Quabbin is 49 [00:04:01] Industrial and Commercial has 84. [00:04:04] Eagle Hill school is 97 Municipal is 25. [00:04:09] the churches were allocated nine units [00:04:16] this comes out to a cost with one [00:04:18] bedroom [00:04:21] about 550 [00:04:23] two bedroom it's about a thousand [00:04:26] bedroom four bedrooms so on [00:04:29] so [00:04:30] this is the cost per property type so [00:04:34] we'd see most of the cost is coming out [00:04:38] here in the [00:04:40] residential area about seven hundred [00:04:44] thousand and then this Quabbin [00:04:47] commercial industrial Eagle Hill School [00:04:50] Municipal and the churches and coming [00:04:53] out to [00:04:55] about 850 000 and that is the estimated [00:05:00] anticipated [00:05:03] sewer Enterprise fund would be 850 [00:05:08] 000 based on [00:05:10] um [00:05:11] the calculations in the new system the [00:05:13] new wastewater treatment plants [00:05:17] in the middle column is a three bedroom [00:05:19] maximum so you'll see what goes down is [00:05:23] the residential numbers [00:05:28] um Quabbin stays the same all the other [00:05:31] numbers stay the same cost per bedroom [00:05:34] slightly increased [00:05:36] one bedroom is [00:05:38] 568 two bedroom is [00:05:42] 1137 three bedroom one thousand seven [00:05:46] hundred you know approximately [00:05:49] and and this again this sums up to what [00:05:53] our goal is about eight hundred and [00:05:55] fifty thousand [00:05:57] anyone have any questions on that so far [00:06:04] okay the other option is to using the [00:06:08] equivalent dwelling units so that would [00:06:11] be [00:06:13] per unit [00:06:14] is per equivalent dwelling units [00:06:18] the residential units is only [00:06:22] 482 because we're not counting per [00:06:24] bedroom and we're saying each unit [00:06:27] is the same [00:06:28] now if you have a duplex that would be [00:06:32] counted as two different units [00:06:37] a residential would be 49 [00:06:40] commercial industrial is 73 based on the [00:06:44] units that are there [00:06:47] um Eagle Hill school is 83 [00:06:50] Municipal is 13 and churches are four [00:06:58] one one dwelling would be one thousand [00:07:01] two hundred a duplex [00:07:04] two thousand four hundred [00:07:06] Triplex [00:07:07] 3600 and again this sums up to the 850 [00:07:12] 000. [00:07:22] because um go ahead [00:07:25] we want to take some questions on this [00:07:28] while you're since you got the rates or [00:07:30] do you did you want to add more no I [00:07:33] just I just was going to open it up to [00:07:34] any questions or comments or how these [00:07:37] were derived or [00:07:40] um I'd be happy to answer what I can [00:07:46] Kelly you got anything [00:07:49] no no [00:07:54] you think I'm good [00:07:56] at this point [00:07:58] how about you Eric [00:08:00] well that I don't know what the rates [00:08:03] mean I guess I'm feeling stupid because [00:08:05] this [00:08:07] um we want to get to 850 [00:08:10] 000 [00:08:10] that's uh annual cost of the Enterprise [00:08:13] fund [00:08:15] that is what the um [00:08:18] estimated cost for running the sewer [00:08:22] system when the two treatment plants are [00:08:24] up and running [00:08:25] okay so these rates would be essentially [00:08:28] annual numbers [00:08:30] correct so right now I think your [00:08:35] um [00:08:37] your Enterprise fund the [00:08:39] the budget is a little bit less [00:08:42] than this I'm not sure what it's running [00:08:44] this time [00:08:46] but we were told from the engineering [00:08:49] firm that with the two treatment plants [00:08:52] and the new pump station [00:08:54] time labor [00:08:56] expenses chemicals so that would be [00:08:58] about 850 000 so that's the number that [00:09:02] I'm trying to build to [00:09:05] all your rate numbers and rate [00:09:08] development has to come up to 850 [00:09:11] 000. [00:09:18] and I and I assume I'll just speak out [00:09:22] that [00:09:23] down the road we discovered that the [00:09:25] budget is going to be 9.50 all these [00:09:27] methods would work the math would just [00:09:29] have to be revised [00:09:31] correct I would I would be leaving [00:09:34] Nicole with the spreadsheets right so [00:09:37] she could uh punch in the new numbers [00:09:40] and go age 50 is [00:09:43] um you know if your insurance rates go [00:09:45] down your rates go down if gas prices go [00:09:47] down it's going to go down you know and [00:09:50] that's [00:09:51] um included in this now what is also [00:09:54] included [00:09:56] is to pay off the three existing loans [00:09:59] that you have [00:10:00] but it doesn't include any payoff for [00:10:03] the new loan because that's part of the [00:10:06] betterment [00:10:07] right [00:10:09] okay I was going to ask about the [00:10:11] existing debt [00:10:13] so this is this is projected what it's [00:10:17] going to cost to run [00:10:19] operation once once this job is done [00:10:24] correct [00:10:38] and again I mean if you wanted to make [00:10:41] an assumption that [00:10:43] um next year year after year after that [00:10:46] you want to [00:10:48] instead of 850 you want it to be 8 20. [00:10:51] you could do that but the point of this [00:10:54] exercise is coming up with a method [00:10:56] that you can divvy up whatever that [00:10:59] final cost is that you want it to be so [00:11:02] I was told to go with the 850 [00:11:06] 000 based on Consulting the engineers [00:11:10] talking to Scott [00:11:12] talking to Nicole about the indirect [00:11:15] costs between departments and all of [00:11:17] that foreign [00:11:23] it really is not it's not tied to [00:11:27] whatever betterment scheme we come up [00:11:30] with and it's not really tied to the [00:11:33] taxes [00:11:35] this is really just like to be for being [00:11:38] on the system [00:11:42] that's very that's a very good point [00:11:45] um it is not tied to either although [00:11:48] sometimes I find communities if they go [00:11:51] with a per dwelling unit they might do [00:11:53] their betterments for dwelling if they [00:11:55] go with [00:11:57] um their linear foot Road Frontage for [00:12:00] their betterment then you don't do your [00:12:02] sewer rate by that so you know you could [00:12:07] your uniform rate method [00:12:10] could be [00:12:12] um with the betterments also if you want [00:12:14] to do it per bedroom or per dwelling but [00:12:17] you don't have to so they are not to [00:12:19] tied together [00:12:21] thanks [00:12:25] yeah this is this is more to figure out [00:12:27] if we wanted to [00:12:29] change our current system of charging [00:12:33] rates of how we charge the rates [00:12:37] at this point [00:12:39] more so than [00:12:42] the betterment [00:12:43] so completely different kind of animal [00:12:45] at this [00:12:48] right well I would like to tell you [00:12:51] about one of the [00:12:53] advantages of doing the per bedroom [00:12:56] method is you might have a [00:13:00] um [00:13:01] someone in a small house maybe a senior [00:13:03] couple in the small house they're paying [00:13:05] per bedroom [00:13:07] and they only have a two bedroom house [00:13:10] so it's not [00:13:12] paying the same as someone with a four [00:13:14] bedroom [00:13:16] or three bedroom [00:13:18] and you can see that in the rates paid [00:13:22] by [00:13:23] Quabbin [00:13:25] that residential unit [00:13:29] down here [00:13:31] it's about [00:13:32] 35 [00:13:33] 000 here about forty thousand on the per [00:13:36] dwelling unit it's about sixty thousand [00:13:39] all right [00:13:56] okay for me [00:14:00] you comfortable Eric yep [00:14:07] um [00:14:09] I mean I I personally uh [00:14:15] I like to change at least between [00:14:17] three and [00:14:19] brought some numbers a little closer [00:14:21] that we that was true [00:14:24] a wide range here of [00:14:27] um from 500 basically two thousand [00:14:29] dollars for a yearly cost [00:14:34] um I'm still a little concerned with [00:14:38] Seventeen hundred dollars on a three [00:14:39] bedroom house [00:14:41] knowing that [00:14:44] quite a few of the houses probably have [00:14:47] two people in them the three bedroom and [00:14:49] they could be elderly also [00:14:51] uh [00:14:55] but like I said it's just [00:14:57] I guess I haven't really made a decision [00:14:59] yet I don't know about the rest if [00:15:01] Eric or Kelly have you [00:15:04] had a decision on what you feel is [00:15:06] true [00:15:10] um I guess uh I kind of agree with you [00:15:12] rob that the looking at the three [00:15:14] bedroom Max does bring it up you know a [00:15:17] little bit [00:15:18] like a happy medium I lost [00:15:21] um [00:15:22] we're still addressing it as you know [00:15:25] her bedroom [00:15:27] but it's um you know that that Gap from [00:15:30] you know one unit [00:15:32] where we're paying you know [00:15:35] a little over a thousand dollars now and [00:15:38] that that jumps it's like it it puts it [00:15:40] in half [00:15:42] I kind of I have a hard time swallowing [00:15:44] that I guess [00:15:46] um that we're actually going backwards [00:15:48] so [00:15:50] I don't know I [00:15:52] I do like the option of the the three [00:15:54] bedroom Max [00:15:56] but I'm I'm kind of torn with [00:15:59] what we're doing now works [00:16:04] foreign [00:16:14] my question last week was you know are [00:16:17] we accounting for some of those you know [00:16:20] commercial units that were maybe [00:16:22] overcharged or undercharged and it [00:16:24] sounds like by site visits that that was [00:16:27] the case like those that was all looked [00:16:29] at when when Lori and um Nicole visited [00:16:33] places to maybe address those um [00:16:37] discrepancies [00:16:38] so they [00:16:41] I guess I'm kind of I'm kind of torn [00:16:43] between the three bedroom Max and you [00:16:45] know the way we currently do it [00:16:47] um [00:16:52] yeah I guess one of my issues with doing [00:16:54] in a bedroom [00:16:56] um how some people Define a bedroom [00:16:59] I know the title five has a [00:17:03] mission for how they right qualify homes [00:17:07] and rooms yeah means of a grass in a [00:17:10] closet right [00:17:11] yes [00:17:13] in Massachusetts sometimes you have a [00:17:16] um [00:17:17] ceiling height [00:17:19] it has to have at least [00:17:21] seven feet in One Direction you know [00:17:25] minimum [00:17:27] so you can't count a hallway [00:17:32] right yeah [00:17:34] because the hallway could have a closet [00:17:35] and yeah [00:17:37] yeah I'm not so worried about [00:17:40] I'm more worried about people coming in [00:17:42] and saying well that's a Dan that's an [00:17:44] office [00:17:45] you know and we'll be getting into those [00:17:48] discussions right [00:17:50] just as I mean honestly it's a matter of [00:17:52] time you should just get through them [00:17:53] but it couldn't tie it up for years of [00:17:57] people asking for abatements [00:17:59] um I worked with one community in this [00:18:02] method where they before they sent out [00:18:07] um [00:18:08] your bedroom counts they sent a letter [00:18:10] to each person [00:18:12] we're redoing our [00:18:16] doing this based on the number of [00:18:18] bedrooms our assessors records say you [00:18:21] have X number of bedrooms if you do not [00:18:24] agree with that please give us a call [00:18:26] and we'll set up a site visit [00:18:28] and a couple of things one person took [00:18:31] out a wall because they wanted a big [00:18:33] bedroom and obviously it went down it [00:18:35] wasn't four bedrooms anymore it was now [00:18:37] three and that was obvious and you know [00:18:39] and some other people wanted to it [00:18:41] not to be a bedroom so they didn't have [00:18:44] to pay as much and [00:18:46] it hurts but it you know that's kind of [00:18:49] you either [00:18:50] that's how you have to [00:18:53] develop it yeah [00:18:56] um [00:19:01] right we just recently had a duplex take [00:19:04] a wall down to make a single family home [00:19:14] well we don't we don't have any way to [00:19:17] meter this that's obviously our problem [00:19:19] right [00:19:21] um [00:19:24] if we go through this with abatements or [00:19:27] I've gone through this with abatements [00:19:29] because [00:19:30] people say they haven't been using it [00:19:33] uh you know an apartment that is [00:19:36] not rented [00:19:38] you've got to also figure that it's [00:19:41] possible to rent it so it has value it [00:19:44] gets tricky and then [00:19:47] and then going around to see [00:19:50] I don't know if we have [00:19:53] that kind of [00:19:55] Manpower [00:20:01] I I guess to the the point of I I [00:20:04] understand we're trying to [00:20:07] this the most part elderly because I I [00:20:09] hear quada States [00:20:11] basically being [00:20:12] singled out here or see it being [00:20:16] said we've mentioned elderly um [00:20:19] if we stayed the same and created a [00:20:22] senior discount [00:20:25] is [00:20:26] that may be a better option and [00:20:30] we may have to adjust the [00:20:33] the edu rate and create a [00:20:37] some kind of a senior discount which [00:20:38] would have to [00:20:40] obviously a bylaw realm to [00:20:43] give some parameters of what who would [00:20:46] qualify somebody [00:20:49] um [00:20:50] foreign [00:20:53] a [00:20:55] can of worms there if you're going to [00:20:57] allow a senior discount [00:20:59] what's to say that someone who [00:21:02] doesn't have the means [00:21:05] is you know where do you stop those [00:21:07] discounts at [00:21:10] well I know the state has like when they [00:21:13] reimburse people for fees and stuff they [00:21:15] have income [00:21:17] as well as [00:21:19] a lot of the stuff [00:21:22] um [00:21:23] people that obviously have to [00:21:25] if they wanted it they would have to ask [00:21:27] for it it wouldn't just be [00:21:29] just be an automatic [00:21:33] in a sense it would be some kind of an [00:21:35] abatement [00:21:37] in a way [00:21:38] right [00:21:42] I don't know if that would get a little [00:21:43] convoluted [00:21:45] but the rate with the actual rate [00:21:51] yeah because we go back to [00:21:54] back to change the rate schedule what [00:21:56] the edu's now I think it's gonna we're [00:21:59] gonna follow suit with whatever we do [00:22:01] with abatements that's the only reason [00:22:06] and that shifts the cost onto [00:22:11] those without abatements everybody else [00:22:13] right [00:22:15] which is always what happens in [00:22:18] yeah [00:22:19] do we know how much how many people are [00:22:24] not paying [00:22:29] do we have a figure for uh non-payment [00:22:33] I don't have a fingerprint on payment [00:22:35] but we are a little over [00:22:37] half collected but [00:22:39] um [00:22:40] we are we're just sending out a bill you [00:22:43] know the bills are just going just well [00:22:45] so [00:22:48] the second Bill isn't due until the end [00:22:50] of May yeah and we've collected about I [00:22:52] think I looked today it was about 440 [00:22:54] that we've collected so far [00:22:56] 450. [00:23:02] so I mean over the last couple years [00:23:06] we we've been getting 100 of our bills [00:23:09] paid [00:23:13] would probably evade 20-ish properties a [00:23:16] year and then [00:23:18] actually there's probably [00:23:20] 20 or so that don't pay some that are so [00:23:23] far in the rears that [00:23:25] a few of these buildings have been kind [00:23:27] of abandoned [00:23:29] I think we're just keep tallying up on a [00:23:30] few of them [00:23:32] yeah [00:23:34] it becomes a lien on their taxes like on [00:23:37] their taxes yeah right they get paid [00:23:39] eventually because even if we sell the [00:23:41] lien if we have lean auctions then the [00:23:44] next you know they do get paid [00:23:46] um and we do have we have had sewer [00:23:48] retained earnings every year that I've [00:23:50] been there so they're spend money you [00:23:52] know back [00:23:54] so I don't know what the collection is [00:23:56] but I know that what we've collected and [00:23:59] budgeted has been enough [00:24:02] because you know we get retained [00:24:04] earnings back [00:24:07] I mean some people are slow just slow on [00:24:09] paying too [00:24:10] we may not get paid [00:24:13] they'll pay [00:24:14] the following year at some point yeah [00:24:19] it's a good question for The Collector [00:24:21] if [00:24:24] um [00:24:26] Laurie here some communities set up [00:24:29] um [00:24:30] you know a a payment plan [00:24:33] so if you have people who are having [00:24:35] trouble paying [00:24:37] um you want to include what's coming up [00:24:41] too so they have a monthly payment plan [00:24:43] instead of every six months paid [00:24:47] we've got that yes and so I think we [00:24:49] offer that when it when it needs to be [00:24:52] yeah [00:24:53] excellent yeah [00:24:57] I can get the previous year collection [00:24:59] rate though for the you know for the [00:25:01] past few years I can get that from [00:25:03] tomorrow from accounting [00:25:18] I mean you guys want to discuss this [00:25:19] anymore do you want to move on to [00:25:23] the abatements and then maybe discuss [00:25:26] them both together so [00:25:28] information [00:25:31] I'm good with that Rob yeah it's good [00:25:36] if you don't mind Lori you want to go [00:25:38] over your abatement numbers [00:25:40] um the betterments correct sorry [00:25:46] big difference [00:25:49] okay so these I just put blue so it's [00:25:52] different color than the green we had so [00:25:54] we can tell them apart so these are [00:25:56] betterments and you wanted them [00:25:59] um on the similar [00:26:01] scenarios as before [00:26:04] betterments are based on a uniform rate [00:26:06] method the rate is the uniform rate is [00:26:09] per bedroom [00:26:10] four bedroom maximum in the middle [00:26:13] column is a three bedroom maximum and [00:26:16] these are [00:26:17] betterments based on edu's based on a [00:26:21] uniform rate method existing residential [00:26:23] edus were used commercial and Industrial [00:26:27] edus [00:26:28] we'll recalculated based on site visits [00:26:32] and title V calculations which we went [00:26:34] over before the metered flow was [00:26:36] converted based on the allocation of 32 [00:26:41] 912 gallons per year and that's similar [00:26:45] to the system you're using now [00:26:49] so [00:26:52] residential units on the four bedroom [00:26:55] Max there's 1227 [00:27:00] Quabbin is 49. commercial industrial 74. [00:27:05] Eagleville School is 97. [00:27:08] Municipal is 25 [00:27:11] churches are nine this is the total [00:27:13] number of units [00:27:15] the USDA loan is 5 million six hundred [00:27:19] and eighty one thousand half of the USDA [00:27:23] loan this would be better the other half [00:27:26] is going to become the tax base so [00:27:28] that's [00:27:30] 2 million [00:27:32] 840 500. [00:27:34] so this amount [00:27:36] if you divide this into that it comes up [00:27:40] with [00:27:42] 1917 dollars [00:27:45] about [00:27:47] so let's see how it adds up the [00:27:50] residential betterments about 2.3 [00:27:53] million [00:27:54] squabbing [00:27:55] is ninety three thousand almost ninety [00:27:59] four thousand [00:28:00] commercial Industrials 141 [00:28:03] 000 [00:28:05] 929 Eagle Hill school is 186 [00:28:11] 000 Municipal is 48 almost 49 000 and [00:28:16] churches are 17 [00:28:17] 000. and we talked at the last meeting [00:28:20] that you wanted to con um include the [00:28:25] municipal buildings in the betterments [00:28:28] even though half of the money [00:28:30] is going on the tax base [00:28:35] so [00:28:37] one bedroom [00:28:39] is [00:28:41] 1917 two bedrooms 300 3835 [00:28:48] and so on [00:28:51] any questions about that [00:28:53] before we move on okay [00:28:55] this is the three bedroom so your [00:28:58] residential units go down [00:29:01] everything else stays depression pretty [00:29:03] much the same this is going to be [00:29:05] slightly Higher One Thousand nine [00:29:09] hundred and thirty six [00:29:13] and this is your cost for residential [00:29:16] commercial Robin [00:29:18] Eagle Hill School Municipal and churches [00:29:21] and again both of these this one and [00:29:24] this one here add up to our Target [00:29:26] number which is half the alone amount [00:29:29] and this is a betterment cost per house [00:29:34] you know it's it's [00:29:36] um slightly more than the other one but [00:29:39] you don't have the four bedroom in there [00:29:42] and this column is based on the current [00:29:44] edu's betterments are based on the [00:29:46] uniform rate method existing edus reused [00:29:50] commercial and industrial edu's [00:29:52] recalculated based on site business [00:29:54] visits and title V calculations the [00:29:58] metered flow was converted based on the [00:30:00] allocation of 32 912 gallons per year [00:30:04] so this is the number of residential [00:30:07] units a duplex would be two units [00:30:11] Triplex would be three [00:30:16] commercial industrial 70 [00:30:18] 73 Eagle Hill School is [00:30:21] 83 minutes as full as 13. churches of [00:30:25] four [00:30:26] that's adds up to 407 and the betterment [00:30:30] per unit here is [00:30:32] four thousand dollars [00:30:36] and again per unit times the betterment [00:30:39] this is a cost per property type and [00:30:42] again this adds up to [00:30:45] a target number of approximately 2.8 [00:30:47] million [00:30:54] X [00:30:59] now betterments can be financed over a [00:31:02] period that you folks decide upon is it [00:31:05] 10 years is it 20 years [00:31:08] 30 years [00:31:11] and charge at the interest rate that [00:31:13] you're paying up to [00:31:15] 2 percent more [00:31:18] interest that you're paying which is [00:31:20] 1.375 percent [00:31:24] and that figure stays solid throughout [00:31:26] the [00:31:27] life of this long [00:31:30] the interest rate stays solid throughout [00:31:33] the life of the loan [00:31:47] I'm I'm coming late to this but have you [00:31:51] guys talked about [00:31:53] putting this [00:31:55] more on the tax base the whole thing [00:31:59] instead of just 50 percent of it [00:32:03] um that would be a decision in your [00:32:06] letter of conditions from the USDA it's [00:32:09] noted that half will go on the tax base [00:32:11] and the other half will go on the sewer [00:32:14] users [00:32:16] being an Enterprise fund it is separate [00:32:20] so it's supposed to pay its own bills [00:32:23] but you can say [00:32:26] um [00:32:27] the general public does benefit from [00:32:29] clean water coming out of the treatment [00:32:31] plants going into the river [00:32:34] so I don't know if you could justify [00:32:39] all of the expense going on [00:32:43] non-summer users [00:32:50] I hope I don't get shot for what I just [00:32:52] said [00:32:54] no I think Eric I so I'll I mean I'll [00:32:57] back you up there because I think we've [00:32:59] all thought that to see [00:33:01] you know what what would the lesser of [00:33:04] the evil look like right [00:33:08] this is a lot this is a big burden on a [00:33:10] small amount of people [00:33:12] and so if we split it over a larger [00:33:15] amount of people that burden may not be [00:33:17] so much [00:33:18] so you you just said I think out loud [00:33:20] what we're all thinking and have thought [00:33:22] for [00:33:23] or pondered but I think that would be [00:33:26] a conversation first of all with USDA to [00:33:29] see if they would be willing to even you [00:33:32] know allow us to entertain that and then [00:33:34] you know possibly another vote [00:33:39] another thing is now we're dividing it [00:33:42] among the sewer users those who are [00:33:44] connected [00:33:45] sewer users who are not connected I mean [00:33:48] they're not sewer users but if they're [00:33:51] along the line when you put the [00:33:54] fines and did you require everybody to [00:33:57] connect and if you did not you might [00:34:00] have people along the line you could [00:34:02] connect but have chosen not to and I've [00:34:04] seen sometimes those people are better [00:34:08] but some communities have if the super [00:34:12] line goes in front of your house you [00:34:14] have to connect no matter what then [00:34:16] other people say well you need to [00:34:18] connect but I can't just connect because [00:34:20] I need a grinder pump this that and the [00:34:23] other thing so if you pay for that then [00:34:25] I will connect [00:34:27] so [00:34:28] then they'd have to pay a betterment and [00:34:31] for [00:34:33] construction of their line which is [00:34:36] you know [00:34:38] a few grand at least [00:34:42] and the way I've always understood it [00:34:45] the betterment is [00:34:47] the potential [00:34:49] for a piece of land [00:34:53] it betters the uh you know future house [00:34:56] lot [00:34:57] so [00:34:59] that that would be a way to figure for [00:35:02] for Frontage I've seen that mentioned [00:35:05] but that's not [00:35:07] here [00:35:08] we're not looking at that [00:35:11] well do you [00:35:13] bring up a good point if there's sewer [00:35:16] in front of your house and you can [00:35:18] connect your sewer is good your property [00:35:21] is worth more that's why your property [00:35:23] is bettered that's why they call it a [00:35:26] betterment right [00:35:27] and I don't know if your regulations say [00:35:31] um [00:35:32] and I think I [00:35:34] suggested that you visit this say that [00:35:37] anyone changing house you have to [00:35:39] automatically connect to the Sewer [00:35:42] or if your septic system fails you can't [00:35:44] replace your septic system you have to [00:35:47] automatically connect to the Sewer [00:35:50] I thought that's the way we [00:35:53] again I'm I missed 10 years of this but [00:35:57] that's I I think we were talking about [00:35:59] that at the beginning yeah that's not [00:36:02] forcing people to hook up unless they [00:36:05] were in failure correct [00:36:09] I think um you have to create a [00:36:13] District also [00:36:15] to do stuff like that [00:36:17] that they if you're going to enforce it [00:36:19] everybody ties into it I think you have [00:36:21] to like create a District zone [00:36:24] and outline the area [00:36:27] people are going to be [00:36:29] required to tie in [00:36:34] it could be wrong but I was told a while [00:36:37] back [00:36:38] the case that sounds pretty accurate [00:36:48] um [00:36:56] well Lori just to clarify [00:36:59] um if we chose [00:37:01] to stay for our rates with our edus we [00:37:06] don't have to choose [00:37:08] pdus for betterments [00:37:11] and I'm just using that as an example [00:37:13] I'm sorry I just I just called up on the [00:37:16] screen to chat because I was originally [00:37:18] had this so [00:37:20] um can you read this Nicole because [00:37:22] they're not asking I think [00:37:25] I think you're the boy you're they're [00:37:27] asking the question I'd be happy to [00:37:28] answer if you want me to [00:37:31] can you read that guys [00:37:34] um well I mean well we'll take questions [00:37:36] from people in a minute okay sure sure [00:37:39] if you respond to Kelly first [00:37:42] okay I'm sorry Kelly I was I saw that [00:37:44] text what was your question again I'm [00:37:46] sorry [00:37:48] um if we choose one method of charging [00:37:52] our rates [00:37:53] we don't necessarily have to [00:37:56] pick the same method for implementing [00:37:59] betterments correct correct okay I just [00:38:02] wanted I just wanted to clarify that [00:38:03] just so that I understood that correctly [00:38:06] and anyone else that you know questioned [00:38:08] it thank you as long as it's a uniform [00:38:10] rate method you know it's the house is [00:38:13] it the bedroom it could be uniform it [00:38:15] could be linear foot of Road Frontage [00:38:17] you can't say [00:38:19] if it's not logical you can't adopt it [00:38:22] no I mean I'm I'm looking at these three [00:38:24] options thinking that you know I think [00:38:27] these are three you know reasonable [00:38:28] options in front of us and so say we [00:38:31] stayed with edus for our rates [00:38:35] but decided that we wanted to go with [00:38:37] the the three bedroom Max for our [00:38:39] betterments we can do that [00:38:43] yes but that would be a question I would [00:38:45] suggest that you talk to your attorney [00:38:48] before you put all the wheels in motion [00:38:52] oh I've seen that done before you know [00:38:55] okay okay fair enough quite often people [00:38:58] are doing the betterments in the [00:39:00] don't enter into it because that was [00:39:03] decided upon long ago [00:39:16] Laura did you want to answer uh this [00:39:18] question here [00:39:19] is Columbus Estates metered [00:39:24] he's I'm not sure if Robin Estates is [00:39:26] needed are they on the water system [00:39:33] you're on real red water yep okay so [00:39:37] they are meteored but the question is if [00:39:39] it was can the actual usage be divided [00:39:42] between the number of bedrooms and I [00:39:45] think this question is related to the [00:39:48] betterment or the rates [00:39:52] uh because if it's related to the [00:39:53] betterment you could only better the [00:39:55] property [00:39:56] properties so I don't know if the people [00:39:58] are renters or owners [00:40:06] right yeah it's [00:40:10] yeah so I don't know if they actually [00:40:11] own or I believe if they do not own [00:40:13] because it's one bill that goes to that [00:40:15] whole property correct I think they rent [00:40:17] I'm sure I'm sure it's passed on [00:40:20] oh absolutely yeah I agree Kelly yeah um [00:40:25] you cannot Levy a betterment on someone [00:40:27] who doesn't own property all the [00:40:29] betterments are going to be registered [00:40:30] as [00:40:32] D to the owner yeah do the property yeah [00:40:35] this question was relative to the rates [00:40:37] though they just um [00:40:39] he just okay said it was yeah he's [00:40:42] questioning the rates [00:40:44] oh okay okay [00:40:47] 3A line [00:40:48] oh stubs at every house along the line [00:40:51] so they put in stubs [00:40:54] yeah [00:40:56] well [00:40:58] for stubs it wouldn't be relevant to the [00:41:02] rates because you don't rate [00:41:06] um charge a rate if they're unless [00:41:08] they're connected [00:41:12] yeah I think he may have just been [00:41:14] um stating that anyone along the line [00:41:16] has the capability to hook up [00:41:19] when we were talking about yeah and we'd [00:41:23] have to see I only included those along [00:41:27] the line who are connected hooked up [00:41:30] other ones who are not connected you [00:41:33] have to decide if they're not connected [00:41:35] and if they can connect by [00:41:39] um [00:41:40] a grinder pump or is it a gravity [00:41:42] connection [00:41:52] you're off of that line [00:41:54] it's a force main up there [00:41:56] right [00:41:58] so [00:42:00] do you give them a betterment even [00:42:02] though like [00:42:03] someone who can flow by gravity they'll [00:42:05] have like [00:42:06] a thousand dollar better man [00:42:08] is the other person is a four thousand [00:42:09] dollar betterment but it's going to be [00:42:12] um a couple Grand to get a pot grinder [00:42:14] pump in there should you charge them the [00:42:16] same amount of betterment or do you do [00:42:18] reduce it by the cost of the grinder [00:42:21] pump [00:42:23] sure decision [00:42:26] and that would bring on a few more [00:42:28] Parcels to [00:42:31] bring the rates down [00:42:33] but I don't know how many Parcels along [00:42:37] the Route [00:42:38] that aren't connected on some of the [00:42:41] older streets [00:42:46] and if we did look at Frontage then [00:42:49] there are [00:42:50] another 10 parcels [00:42:56] of at least [00:42:58] and in that case you can better people [00:43:01] that are um [00:43:04] that don't have a [00:43:06] they don't have a structure there [00:43:08] correct [00:43:12] I think more and more I'm liking the [00:43:14] whole [00:43:16] okay we see what it does to the taxes is [00:43:18] before we go and [00:43:21] betterments on people that aren't even [00:43:23] hooked up and [00:43:25] I don't know [00:43:28] well I would be happy if you get me the [00:43:31] numbers of the people who [00:43:33] have access to the Shoreline [00:43:37] through their property not through [00:43:39] another person's property [00:43:41] uh I could include those numbers in [00:43:44] there [00:43:53] from what I've hooked up since they [00:43:55] built the line [00:43:57] you're probably looking at like another [00:43:59] 30 35 [00:44:01] okay [00:44:03] I have access it's it's a it's an [00:44:06] okay [00:44:08] is that will right too Rob [00:44:12] I don't think this [00:44:13] this stubs are only put in when they [00:44:17] found a line going up to Hardwick Center [00:44:20] yeah [00:44:21] um [00:44:23] all right I believe is an actual [00:44:26] District [00:44:30] layout [00:44:34] right where you've had hookups and [00:44:37] anybody in the area has to look up [00:44:38] basically [00:44:40] and additionally when they run a sewer [00:44:42] line they put a stub to the property [00:44:45] line if they haven't put a stub to the [00:44:47] property line it's kind of hard to [00:44:49] charge them a betterment because then [00:44:51] they have to dig up in the public Street [00:44:54] to connect to the sewer line so I don't [00:44:56] know the number of people if you say [00:44:58] they're 30 [00:45:00] foreign [00:45:01] so if just [00:45:07] so it would go from go down to [00:45:10] 3 000 about 900. [00:45:13] if you had 30 more connections [00:45:18] but there we're talking about open land [00:45:20] with no stubs [00:45:22] and as you say it would be more of a a [00:45:25] lot more of a task to [00:45:27] hook up we'd have to break the line [00:45:34] you know [00:45:38] charging someone a betterment and they [00:45:41] want to hook up and then they have to [00:45:43] get a street opening permit and pay for [00:45:45] the contractor you know then it's going [00:45:46] to cost them more than the cost of the [00:45:50] betterment yeah [00:46:01] okay [00:46:05] I forgot with the per bedroom basis [00:46:12] how would we handle [00:46:14] the [00:46:15] betterment to like a stub [00:46:23] yeah so if you're talking about the per [00:46:26] bedroom [00:46:27] and someone is not connected [00:46:30] when they do connect [00:46:33] you charge a connection fee that is [00:46:38] um similar to the betterment amount [00:46:44] they have a 3 [00:46:48] 3 but they want to connect they would be [00:46:50] looking at paying [00:46:53] about six thousand dollars to connect [00:46:56] correct yeah [00:47:03] like I said it's very limited to that [00:47:05] one area [00:47:07] um right [00:47:13] but there are stubs there so I don't [00:47:15] know [00:47:23] are you saying that some areas would [00:47:25] actually even if they're not hooked up [00:47:27] it's have [00:47:29] have that stub that you would charge [00:47:31] that betterment regardless at this point [00:47:35] I find I have found communities who say [00:47:39] the sewer lines going in [00:47:41] you're getting a stub [00:47:44] you get a betterment [00:47:46] I have communities said [00:47:48] we'll do that if there's a structure [00:47:50] there if there's no structure there they [00:47:53] choose not to Levy the betterment and [00:47:55] divide it up among everybody else [00:47:58] most of the times I'm doing the [00:48:00] betterment analysis is [00:48:02] sewer lines are going in the ground at [00:48:04] the time [00:48:05] so it's pretty clear that I have the [00:48:08] plans of the sewer and I know where it [00:48:10] is and I know which houses are getting [00:48:12] stubbed so this is a little bit [00:48:14] different that we have to go back in [00:48:17] time to see what sewer lines went wait [00:48:20] were laid out and where did the property [00:48:23] actually got stubs [00:48:29] yeah and it's been there for seven years [00:48:32] or so so now you charge them betterments [00:48:36] or something that's been [00:48:38] there for a while [00:48:41] yeah so wheel right in Gilbertville I [00:48:43] don't know how old [00:48:45] the treatment plants are so the sewer [00:48:48] line is going to be as low [00:48:50] as a little treatment plants [00:48:52] the Gilbertville plant is built in [00:48:55] 1972 with a life expectancy of 20 years [00:49:00] the wheel raid plant was rebuilt [00:49:04] um but turned out kind of experimentally [00:49:06] I don't know what [00:49:10] what its lifespan is [00:49:17] already exceeded [00:49:27] oh you guys got anything that you want [00:49:30] to add [00:49:34] any more questions for Lori [00:49:37] I don't know if it's Lori's [00:49:40] basket but I I would like to look at [00:49:44] what the cost would be to spread this [00:49:46] out across the tax base [00:49:49] I know I'm committing suicide here [00:49:53] I'd like to [00:49:55] see those numbers maybe I can [00:49:58] get together with Jen [00:50:00] and ask her [00:50:02] we are actually yeah actually have them [00:50:08] it's 50 it's 54 cents a thousand [00:50:13] is that for the full cost of this [00:50:16] um a half the cost [00:50:19] for the forecast [00:50:20] okay so it's [00:50:22] 54 cents per thousand [00:50:25] I believe the average family home was [00:50:27] something like 350 Rob do you have that [00:50:29] DLS sheet in front of you [00:50:30] yeah I just remember the per thousand [00:50:33] right I think it was like a 250 000 it [00:50:37] third Department of local Services [00:50:39] there's a way to calculate that we did [00:50:41] it because you know on the police [00:50:43] station was going to be about this much [00:50:44] and this is how much we thought you know [00:50:47] we thought we would be able to borrow [00:50:49] how much this was going to be [00:50:51] um so [00:50:54] yeah 300 about 325 [00:50:57] 175 dollars per household [00:51:02] not just 325 right [00:51:05] yeah 175 per household [00:51:09] well [00:51:11] and are better off going with the 50 54 [00:51:14] cents per thousand so if you know [00:51:19] if you want to mislead people thinking [00:51:20] that [00:51:21] yeah they might have a eight hundred [00:51:23] thousand dollar house [00:51:25] based on the evaluation of your home so [00:51:27] you'd have to do the maximum of the 54 [00:51:30] cents per thousand right [00:51:34] is that um [00:51:38] off [00:51:44] I am [00:51:46] I'll have to confirm that's the correct [00:51:48] information but that's what I have here [00:51:52] so [00:51:54] and [00:51:55] um the [00:51:59] USDA would have some say in the matter [00:52:02] and [00:52:04] um [00:52:06] because it's already written in your [00:52:07] letter of condition so I don't you know [00:52:09] you would have to talk to yeah we'd have [00:52:11] to have another chicken with them for [00:52:13] sure yeah [00:52:15] and we'd have to get it through town [00:52:17] meeting [00:52:18] but we have to do that with the [00:52:20] betterments anyway right [00:52:22] correct [00:52:25] the betterments have to go to a boat [00:52:30] yes [00:52:34] and the Boost in taxes is 50 of that's [00:52:37] going to happen anyway [00:52:40] correct by any of our plans here correct [00:52:45] no [00:52:48] um [00:52:49] yeah [00:52:50] there's no free options no [00:52:55] but like I said you know [00:52:58] what we're tasked to do is find [00:53:01] the best option [00:53:03] for for anyone and everyone involved you [00:53:07] know the town voted to do this project [00:53:08] the town voted to borrow this money [00:53:13] yeah well we could come up with a [00:53:17] betterment Solution on one end and then [00:53:20] also let people [00:53:23] kind of choose okay we'll put it out [00:53:26] there as 100 taxation if the [00:53:30] right yeah and then we could have a [00:53:34] betterment solution [00:53:37] that we would offer if [00:53:41] didn't want to do that [00:53:43] do that yeah and and again I I want [00:53:46] um I think [00:53:49] hey we need to get this moving so we [00:53:51] need to be having these meetings these [00:53:53] information public meetings whatever we [00:53:54] need to have but I want clarification [00:53:57] from [00:53:59] um legal on [00:54:01] how we have to you know present this and [00:54:04] do this so that we're doing it the right [00:54:05] way [00:54:08] well we have numbers man go ahead Nicole [00:54:11] if you can get me the number of [00:54:17] potential people [00:54:19] spoke up to the Sewer who were given a [00:54:22] sewer tie but never hooked up and are [00:54:26] not being built [00:54:28] I would imagine Scott has that [00:54:32] um he I'm sure he has that for um [00:54:35] 32A line but the older lines I don't [00:54:39] know [00:54:42] Gloria it sounds like from what Rob was [00:54:45] saying they weren't given an option down [00:54:47] in Gilbertville and wheel right if it's [00:54:49] a district they had to hook up they [00:54:50] might that I did I understand that right [00:54:52] Rob [00:54:54] yeah I believe that you had 100 build [00:54:56] out right because I think the size of [00:54:58] the properties everywhere they had to [00:55:00] hook up okay [00:55:03] like the size of the parcels you know [00:55:05] for septics wouldn't be feasible so I [00:55:07] think they they had to hook up [00:55:09] yeah because I actually want to say I [00:55:12] believe [00:55:13] uh the offices down Barton yeah I [00:55:18] believe they [00:55:19] [Music] [00:55:22] oh like I could be wrong but I seem to [00:55:24] remember them digging down there yeah [00:55:26] make a connection [00:55:28] I'm sure things weren't working so hot [00:55:31] thereafter it's an empty for a long time [00:55:37] so now we do have a bunch of numbers we [00:55:39] can [00:55:40] cut and paste and put together [00:55:44] some sort of saying [00:55:46] choices [00:55:48] to present [00:55:50] right well so but the rates are on us [00:55:53] correct [00:55:56] the rates are one of the things that you [00:55:58] need to we have to do yeah right and I [00:56:01] think they want you to do it quickly [00:56:03] because [00:56:05] um they want to move forward with the [00:56:07] long enema but [00:56:09] go back to the rates [00:56:24] do we have the sewer budget yet Nicole [00:56:28] um most of it yes but [00:56:30] some of the debt we don't have yet [00:56:33] from UniBank [00:56:35] I'm afraid the rates are going to go out [00:56:37] through the roof I'm not sure yet [00:56:39] we have you know Scott's projections [00:56:45] Debt Service you should have that but [00:56:48] you mean the interim financing for this [00:56:50] project [00:56:51] I mean the 1.8 million dollars that we [00:56:53] just borrowed [00:56:58] yeah I I think it'd be a good idea if [00:57:01] maybe we could tie these numbers to the [00:57:04] actual budget that's coming up [00:57:10] it's very close to 850 right it's not [00:57:13] over 850 correct not so far I just like [00:57:17] I said I the [00:57:18] the interest because of how that you [00:57:21] know everything went up [00:57:23] um and all the tech the feds hiked [00:57:25] everything uh I don't know what that [00:57:26] interest is going to be on that 1.8 [00:57:31] it's a conversation I was gonna have [00:57:33] with you probably tomorrow [00:57:35] so I don't know exactly but we may want [00:57:39] we would we may want to know that before [00:57:41] I mean these these these numbers could [00:57:44] get a little crazy [00:57:47] well I am going to set Nicole up so [00:57:51] whatever the rate is we you can you have [00:57:55] to decide on a format for a rate right [00:57:59] whether it's 8.50 [00:58:02] 78 80. [00:58:05] you know [00:58:06] all the formulas there Lori and [00:58:09] yeah I will I will send you the whole [00:58:11] thing I know that Joe delbow from USDA [00:58:14] was really [00:58:17] um want to know if the decision is made [00:58:19] because they [00:58:20] want to release this money and they [00:58:22] can't do it until [00:58:26] you've made a decision right and I have [00:58:30] sent me an invite to have a meeting with [00:58:31] him on Monday morning at 10 am [00:58:34] excellent let me know if you need me to [00:58:37] be there [00:58:40] well in order to change the rates we're [00:58:42] probably going to have to [00:58:45] at least look [00:58:48] it's currently our whole regulation is [00:58:50] written [00:58:51] off the edu basis [00:58:55] regulation pretty much pretty much balls [00:58:57] around [00:58:58] so we actually would have to change our [00:59:00] regulation [00:59:02] to change the rates [00:59:06] we have to change the wording in some of [00:59:08] those documents [00:59:10] you have to look at [00:59:12] even our abatement process [00:59:15] change through you know in order to [00:59:16] change the rates [00:59:18] so really this isn't a [00:59:21] really quick answer [00:59:24] I mean if we're going to change the way [00:59:25] that we are currently charging [00:59:28] we just can't change the Wayward without [00:59:31] changing [00:59:33] how we are [00:59:36] kind of regulations are written [00:59:39] to the way we charge [00:59:43] you [00:59:44] um in the report I gave you it's [00:59:46] definitely imperative that you revisit [00:59:50] your regulations right [00:59:53] I think that's been been known all along [00:59:56] do that right yeah at least for the past [00:59:59] year I've been involved that we've we've [01:00:01] known that's going to have to be done [01:00:05] right you can't write the regulations [01:00:07] around [01:00:08] a method you haven't chosen [01:00:13] correct all right so yes [01:00:15] we don't have time timing is of the [01:00:18] essence so we don't really have time to [01:00:20] rewrite our regulations right now [01:00:23] get the project moving [01:00:28] we have to go to town meeting for that [01:00:31] for what to change the regulations [01:00:37] I believe we can do it in-house I'd ask [01:00:40] legal but [01:00:47] we're acting as The Silver Commission [01:00:49] now [01:00:55] I mean they were Rewritten in 2010 [01:00:59] they're updated I should say [01:01:03] I'm looking at them now [01:01:07] I don't I don't remember if it went to [01:01:10] town I don't think it did go to town [01:01:12] meeting I don't think so [01:01:14] I think but there's probably [01:01:16] I'm not trying to make trouble I'm just [01:01:19] looking for [01:01:20] land mines [01:01:23] wow but as am I I just I don't want us [01:01:27] to [01:01:28] to move forward on a new [01:01:30] rate [01:01:32] and then oh we need to change the [01:01:34] regulations to actually adopt the rate [01:01:37] right and [01:01:40] because we got that's also a step we [01:01:44] I think we do each yeah [01:01:47] so you could do your rates based on [01:01:49] edu's that is somewhat similar to your [01:01:51] regulations [01:01:54] adopt your your new rates [01:01:57] rewrite your regulations and then if you [01:02:00] want [01:02:01] based on the four bedroom or three [01:02:03] bedroom per unit charge the following [01:02:06] year [01:02:12] first of all most people I I [01:02:16] suggest that they visit their rates [01:02:19] every year whether it's a one percent [01:02:21] increase [01:02:23] but the cost of doing business is not [01:02:27] going down anywhere [01:02:29] no [01:02:30] um [01:02:31] so [01:02:33] I think you want to [01:02:35] um you'll have a method in a format that [01:02:38] you can [01:02:39] if you adopt the eat continue to do the [01:02:42] edus you have a formula that you can [01:02:47] revisit it [01:02:49] every year but you also want to have in [01:02:52] your regulations that [01:02:55] you have the option of other these other [01:02:58] rates [01:02:59] yeah or adding and adjusting people's [01:03:03] rates during the year in case [01:03:06] um [01:03:10] or something [01:03:14] well I kind of like that idea [01:03:16] I think [01:03:19] my thought is that [01:03:21] I was hoping we would actually vote on [01:03:23] the rates tonight to be honest with you [01:03:25] we've we've now had a few meetings about [01:03:28] the raids [01:03:29] we've gotten more information every time [01:03:32] um [01:03:33] I [01:03:35] I do think that we have to act on it and [01:03:37] I don't think that we're being [01:03:39] rushed into anything [01:03:41] um I like what Lori just said you know [01:03:44] if we continue based on edus [01:03:48] to rewrite our our um [01:03:53] thank you regulations [01:03:56] and then add these other structures in [01:03:58] there so that we have the option and and [01:04:01] reevaluate it [01:04:03] next day it should be Revisited you know [01:04:06] every May before town meeting [01:04:10] I think if you were to decide and vote [01:04:14] on [01:04:15] um rates we know that is one of the [01:04:18] requirements for you to get this [01:04:21] these projects moving [01:04:24] and I just um [01:04:26] I don't want you to lose out on that [01:04:27] money [01:04:31] well can I make a motion that we do that [01:04:33] that we [01:04:36] vote to continue with this [01:04:39] edu based rate [01:04:46] can I can I add the other language in [01:04:49] that [01:04:50] um we will re rewrite our regulations [01:04:52] based on this and the additional two [01:04:54] rate structures that were given to us [01:04:57] and reevaluate next you know every year [01:04:59] annually [01:05:02] you know prior to the town meeting which [01:05:04] is the budget [01:05:06] or this Enterprise fund and I'll second [01:05:08] that [01:05:10] can I do you want me to put an option [01:05:13] number on here this is an option you're [01:05:15] choosing [01:05:20] so when you go to USDA you have an [01:05:23] option in Hand of what you voted on [01:05:28] the motion that we should go with the [01:05:31] edu based option [01:05:37] in a second [01:05:41] that we will stay with [01:05:44] options three which is the edu based [01:05:47] rate [01:05:49] but we will add [01:05:51] regulations [01:05:53] we'll add [01:05:55] all right [01:05:57] I [01:06:00] can we like rescind the motion and then [01:06:02] maybe Kelly since you added so much [01:06:05] worded [01:06:06] in the way because I think you guys are [01:06:08] on the same page I just want to make [01:06:09] sure this is clear [01:06:11] only [01:06:12] move it forward does that make sense it [01:06:15] does [01:06:17] Eric you want to resend your motion [01:06:19] quickly well I moved that I resend my [01:06:22] most sugar I'll make a motion that can I [01:06:25] can I interrupt for saying Kelly [01:06:27] no I don't want you making up have to [01:06:30] resend okay so if you're voting on [01:06:32] option three it is different then I'm [01:06:36] going to continue with my EDU rate [01:06:38] correct okay [01:06:48] no thank you Lori because that makes [01:06:51] that that makes sense [01:06:53] um I would make a motion that we choose [01:06:55] option three rates based on edus that [01:06:58] were recalculated based on site visits [01:07:00] and title quad calculations [01:07:03] with the understanding that we will [01:07:06] rewrite our regulations with this option [01:07:09] and the additional two options that were [01:07:12] provided to us [01:07:14] um based on per bedroom with a four [01:07:16] bedroom Max based on her bedroom with a [01:07:19] three bedroom Max and re-evaluate our [01:07:22] rates annually prior to town meeting [01:07:31] okay do we want to discuss this any [01:07:33] further [01:07:35] okay all is in favor [01:07:37] hi uh sorry I gotta do a roll call [01:07:41] because we're on Zoom yeah [01:07:44] uh Kelly [01:07:46] uh yes [01:07:48] Eric yes [01:07:51] Rob is yes [01:07:54] okay so we have now passed a [01:07:58] quasi-rate structure we have one for [01:08:01] this year and we will reevaluate him so [01:08:07] okay that's good [01:08:12] um [01:08:14] moving on [01:08:17] do we want are we gonna try to put the [01:08:20] betterments I guess when it comes to the [01:08:23] betterment so we're going to try putting [01:08:27] an annual town meeting or did we want to [01:08:30] have a [01:08:31] separate meeting please [01:08:36] may I interact inject again I'm not on [01:08:39] the board but [01:08:40] um [01:08:42] you may want to consider if you're doing [01:08:47] the betterments just with the sewer it's [01:08:50] a sewer decision [01:08:54] right or if you're putting it on the [01:08:56] town meeting that might be a different [01:08:58] decision right [01:09:01] does it make sense to maybe have [01:09:05] a public meeting [01:09:09] to get a sense of [01:09:12] you know to get some input more so than [01:09:15] you know just the few people that join [01:09:17] us here [01:09:21] you know talk to USDA about you know [01:09:24] what Eric had suggested and like I said [01:09:27] we're all we all have been thinking it [01:09:29] about you know putting it on the tax [01:09:31] rate as well [01:09:34] I think we're gonna have to I mean [01:09:39] absolutely we need to have like a real [01:09:41] public meeting about this [01:09:45] um [01:09:47] I I guess we do need to get the answer [01:09:50] first from USDA if they're going to [01:09:52] allow that [01:09:55] has an option because if it's [01:09:58] Narrows what we have to deal with right [01:10:01] and we should get our legal opinion back [01:10:04] about [01:10:07] um [01:10:08] exactly [01:10:09] what we need to do to make sure whatever [01:10:12] we vote on and what is done is done [01:10:14] correctly [01:10:16] whatever wording we may need [01:10:21] presented how it's you know you know I [01:10:24] like I question is it a yes or a no is [01:10:27] it a here's your option you got to pick [01:10:28] one like these are all the things that [01:10:30] I've been questioning [01:10:32] um you know for a while now and [01:10:33] personally I'm happy to reach out to [01:10:35] Greg corbo and [01:10:36] just email him you know and find out [01:10:41] yeah I mean it probably would make the [01:10:43] most sense because I mean we've been [01:10:46] working on this for a while and it might [01:10:48] be easier with you and if you have [01:10:50] follow-up questions to [01:10:52] I mean you and I have been working out [01:10:55] for a while I mean we're bringing Eric [01:10:57] up just be as much [01:11:00] as much as fast as we can so you you [01:11:02] understand what questions we have as far [01:11:05] as the legalities of it so [01:11:08] I just like let's not do it the wrong [01:11:10] way so that we have to redo the it just [01:11:13] you know [01:11:14] we don't have a lot of time wait no I [01:11:18] agree you know I I do think that they're [01:11:20] you know they're waiting for us to to [01:11:23] you know we voted tonight on this which [01:11:25] I think is great it's Forward Motion you [01:11:28] know it's for moving forward but um yeah [01:11:30] we have to keep going [01:11:33] for sure [01:11:37] do you have any objections Eric to Kelly [01:11:40] contact and legal no not at all I'd like [01:11:44] to get copied on it [01:11:45] track of the conversation because this [01:11:48] is stuff that is new to me but yeah no [01:11:52] man absolutely again it makes most sense [01:11:55] to keep going [01:11:57] but it's too over good at [01:12:01] and I think betterments have to be voted [01:12:03] at town meeting anyway [01:12:05] right but is it you know do we [01:12:08] is it something that we try to get on [01:12:10] the warrant for the annual time meeting [01:12:12] or you know like Lori said if it's only [01:12:14] going to affect sewer users then is it [01:12:17] you know a special meeting or or does it [01:12:20] need to be like a ballot I don't know [01:12:22] these are the questions that I keep [01:12:24] asking but I don't you know I just want [01:12:25] some clarification what [01:12:27] I think we're pretty we're a lot closer [01:12:30] to having a [01:12:31] some items to present in terms of a [01:12:34] choice correct just even after tonight [01:12:37] so yeah [01:12:40] so should we schedule a public meeting [01:12:43] about this or do you want to wait [01:12:46] that may take time and [01:12:49] May 3rd here today so yeah [01:12:54] um you know our annual [01:12:57] do we know what we need [01:13:00] we meet Monday right so maybe by Monday [01:13:05] we'll just put something in to discuss [01:13:07] sewer in our agenda for Monday [01:13:10] and [01:13:12] maybe we should discuss it then see if [01:13:14] we get some legal answers but [01:13:17] yeah by then [01:13:19] which it may or may not happen I don't [01:13:21] know but they [01:13:24] yeah he's pretty good [01:13:27] it's been a while because I talked to [01:13:30] him [01:13:33] I mean really The Next Step it would be [01:13:35] to have [01:13:36] like more of a public hearing right [01:13:42] Lori are you willing to come out [01:13:45] um for that [01:13:46] if you know if we do a public [01:13:48] informational thing on the betterments [01:13:51] when are you thinking [01:13:54] well that's that's okay that's our next [01:13:55] thought yeah [01:13:58] I will try to make myself available you [01:14:02] know spending on my schedule [01:14:07] I would say we're talking [01:14:10] probably yeah I have a very busy week [01:14:13] next I have something every [01:14:18] um the week after I am wide open [01:14:23] um I'll trust that Nicole you will keep [01:14:25] me in the loop and let me know [01:14:28] when you're going to schedule that [01:14:32] of course if they're not scheduled [01:14:35] schedule okay [01:14:36] oh [01:14:38] really was true for the week of the 15th [01:14:44] yeah we're probably gonna need the [01:14:45] school are we going to try to do [01:14:49] a zoom thing I mean I think we'll have [01:14:52] enough room in the municipal building [01:14:55] um [01:14:58] it's got to be kind of car I know [01:15:02] I mean we can certainly try zoom in [01:15:05] getting the word out there and [01:15:08] um [01:15:09] you know in person [01:15:12] I think if we did it in person I think [01:15:15] I would be [01:15:17] I would think we need the school [01:15:20] just in case [01:15:23] yeah yeah basically we have more than 30 [01:15:25] people in our [01:15:27] space it's a full capacity yeah exactly [01:15:33] I mean that's up to you I mean do you [01:15:35] think we want to try to just do it over [01:15:36] Zoom [01:15:39] I could try and see what the [01:15:40] participation is [01:15:43] I don't know [01:15:45] if people are really [01:15:47] worried about it [01:15:49] they've just accepted it so [01:15:52] yeah I don't I [01:15:55] don't know yeah why don't we shoot what [01:15:57] do you want to shoot for the 16th you [01:15:59] said [01:15:59] I'm I can do the 16th [01:16:03] what can I [01:16:09] um [01:16:10] someone did bring up Zoom is not good [01:16:12] for elderly [01:16:17] good point or do we do we Zoom it from [01:16:20] can we Zoom it from the municipal [01:16:22] building I mean we normally have [01:16:24] coverage there [01:16:26] is there a way for people to ask [01:16:29] questions [01:16:30] if we're at the municipal building if [01:16:32] they want to stay online [01:16:36] not really that would alleviate a bigger [01:16:39] crowd [01:16:40] do we know why Zoom is bad for elderly [01:16:46] maybe just accessibility [01:16:48] yeah [01:16:50] it's true I almost didn't have a working [01:16:52] computer tonight [01:16:56] you know just access and and the you [01:16:59] know capability to do it [01:17:02] um I mean I can be a town hall and I can [01:17:05] hook my computer up so it comes over the [01:17:08] screen [01:17:09] for zoom [01:17:10] and do and do Zoom do that well like I [01:17:14] can be in town hall and then like if you [01:17:16] guys weren't there or if you know just [01:17:19] to save room for maybe if there's 30 [01:17:21] elderly people that want to come I don't [01:17:24] know if you do it it's a townhouse [01:17:26] I have no service [01:17:30] we can't do hardwood TV like no no [01:17:34] well I'd go into the municipal office [01:17:37] building too with with the elderly I'm [01:17:39] elderly [01:17:42] so do you want to meet do you want to [01:17:44] meet at the at the municipal building [01:17:46] and zoom it and then there's both [01:17:48] options and hopefully [01:17:50] we don't get more than 34 people [01:17:53] yeah [01:17:56] I mean let's try if we have to cancel I [01:18:00] and Lord that way Lori doesn't have to [01:18:02] drive out either right which you know [01:18:04] kind of helpful yeah for sure I don't [01:18:06] mind whichever whichever is more [01:18:08] convenient I can I can do that but thank [01:18:11] you [01:18:14] I mean [01:18:17] I mean it probably is a [01:18:19] little better when we can put the stuff [01:18:21] on the screen for a lot of people and [01:18:23] they can especially navigate the screens [01:18:25] they can see stuff right [01:18:32] we're not going to be looking for a vote [01:18:35] no correct you can present okay just [01:18:38] getting the getting the the numbers out [01:18:40] there to people [01:18:43] I saw the options and maybe we can maybe [01:18:45] allow us to test the waters a little bit [01:18:47] to see [01:18:49] yeah [01:18:51] that was kind of my thought on yeah [01:18:53] getting the getting the public involved [01:18:56] more just to see you know [01:18:58] that feedback [01:19:02] for sure [01:19:03] so what time we want to do [01:19:07] six [01:19:09] six or six thirty I'm good either [01:19:13] okay 6 p.m you want to do six Rob is [01:19:16] that good for you [01:19:18] yeah let's try to bump it up a little [01:19:20] earlier just to [01:19:22] give some time [01:19:27] okay for me [01:19:30] you're going to be voting you're going [01:19:32] to be discussing the betterments [01:19:36] correct okay will you be inviting anyone [01:19:38] from USDA [01:19:42] I don't think we need them do it [01:19:48] go about it when we meet yeah I mean [01:19:55] it's our death we're just discussing how [01:19:58] to pay the debt [01:20:00] off I mean if Joe wants to call me you [01:20:03] guys are always welcome more in the [01:20:05] Marriott yeah [01:20:13] so 6 p.m it is [01:20:16] okay [01:20:18] and we'll do zoom and [01:20:21] and in person in person [01:20:25] I mean the problem even with the school [01:20:27] is we don't have the hook up for the TV [01:20:30] system at school so correct [01:20:34] it's always hard for people to hear [01:20:36] oh and it would be good you know to have [01:20:38] it the YouTube and and or Zoom just for [01:20:41] people to be able to refer back to it [01:20:44] if they can't make it [01:20:48] and we may need to have another one an [01:20:50] additional one [01:20:55] yes [01:20:55] yeah well hopefully we got time let's [01:20:59] see [01:21:01] assistant talk on the 16th [01:21:04] six o'clock yep [01:21:07] May 16th sixth yeah [01:21:13] um [01:21:13] okay [01:21:15] before we move on do we have any [01:21:17] questions for Lori [01:21:19] before we move on from the peanut [01:21:22] gallery or anywhere [01:21:26] I can take uh I'll take it back Lori [01:21:29] okay what do I have to do here this I [01:21:32] think I can just take it okay got it [01:21:34] yeah I got it thank you guys [01:21:40] 16. all right bye [01:21:47] okay [01:21:49] the next item on the agenda would be [01:21:52] just the sewer discussing the sewer [01:21:55] which we've been talking about all night [01:21:56] but um [01:21:58] we had talked about [01:22:01] uh get an RFP out there for oversight [01:22:05] management of the plants and operations [01:22:07] and stuff [01:22:09] and also as we build out [01:22:14] and um I I kind of feel that whoever [01:22:19] is going to oversee the operation the [01:22:22] management of the plants to help with [01:22:25] actually more or less help not as a [01:22:28] full-time thing [01:22:31] is going to have to work with the [01:22:33] building and development of the plants [01:22:35] to kind of work with the construction [01:22:38] um okay and I know Nicolia [01:22:42] kind of sent us some RFP stuff and [01:22:47] um [01:22:48] did you guys look over well Kelly I [01:22:52] don't know if Eric was copied on that [01:22:53] yet [01:22:54] Eric were you copied on any of the RFP [01:22:57] proposals [01:22:58] yeah were you talking about a clerk of [01:23:01] the works [01:23:03] it'd be a clerical in in a sense while [01:23:06] the building's going on they would act [01:23:08] somewhat as a clerk of the works but [01:23:11] usually whoever you kind of want to [01:23:13] bring [01:23:15] that group of people as the thing goes [01:23:17] online [01:23:19] so they would stay afterwards [01:23:23] after it's running and help oversee yeah [01:23:26] the operation of a new plant [01:23:29] because there's always [01:23:31] stuff [01:23:33] with a new [01:23:34] nothing ever is going to turn on and run [01:23:37] perfect so you [01:23:38] so it's always good to have [01:23:41] help when the management when the new [01:23:43] plan starts up and we have to it's part [01:23:47] of the letter of conditions the hat is [01:23:49] to have an oversight [01:23:51] of that in place [01:23:54] we're going to create a position [01:23:57] pretty much [01:23:59] foreign [01:24:02] position there's companies out there [01:24:04] that have [01:24:07] people that do this [01:24:10] management management companies and [01:24:13] they [01:24:15] there's some really large ones there's [01:24:17] some local ones but [01:24:20] basically can you can all [01:24:22] help us work through this this situation [01:24:25] I I really don't want us to get into a [01:24:27] situation like we were with wheel right [01:24:29] and [01:24:30] where we get down to the end and [01:24:34] you know everybody's pointing fingers at [01:24:35] everybody else it was this person's [01:24:37] fault that person's fault so [01:24:39] so we spend six million dollars now [01:24:40] we're spending another seven million [01:24:43] dollars again so [01:24:45] absolutely no we need somebody that [01:24:47] works for us [01:24:49] a consultant that knows what they're [01:24:51] looking at and [01:24:53] is not [01:24:55] the same person as you know the design [01:24:58] work or I mean we needed somebody [01:25:00] neutral essentially [01:25:02] working for us [01:25:05] correct and also they they don't want to [01:25:08] put it on our superintendent either to [01:25:09] try to over there's a lot of stuff [01:25:12] that's going to be going on the next [01:25:14] year and I it's it's beyond [01:25:17] what they're paid to do and [01:25:20] a lot of it's going to be beyond their [01:25:22] real knowledge of [01:25:23] how things are done I agree completely [01:25:30] um [01:25:30] gosh trying to look at my old emails [01:25:34] I just tried to look quickly and um I [01:25:37] will be honest but it's definitely [01:25:38] buried I can resend that all too and [01:25:42] maybe I think there was a few different [01:25:44] ones there's one from DPC because they [01:25:46] do it right now in Orange so [01:25:48] um I have a few different ones that is [01:25:50] on my computer at work in in the in the [01:25:53] USDA folder [01:25:55] so maybe we can get that and we can [01:25:57] discuss this also on Monday [01:26:00] because we're running late already [01:26:02] tonight and [01:26:04] it's [01:26:07] makeup I'm trying to make a decision [01:26:10] yeah I would like to kind of just take a [01:26:13] look I remember reading them but to be [01:26:15] honest I would definitely want to reread [01:26:17] them again and and see if something fits [01:26:21] or add you know I I do agree that maybe [01:26:24] we put it out there now for for the [01:26:27] length of the project and then it would [01:26:28] be that you know [01:26:29] not to oversee once it's up and running [01:26:34] absolutely I [01:26:36] I really feel like it's [01:26:41] it's for [01:26:42] a smooth transition because [01:26:45] there's always stuff always nothing's [01:26:48] perfect no they I mean and I think with [01:26:52] you know feel right being a prime [01:26:53] example I think there were change orders [01:26:55] in the field that [01:26:56] people did themselves not having the [01:26:59] knowledge and can do that [01:27:02] why it wasn't in compliance from [01:27:08] from there that's not Rabbit Hole again [01:27:13] yeah [01:27:14] um [01:27:15] do we have anything else [01:27:25] we adjourned [01:27:27] second wait a second all those in favor [01:27:30] Kelly [01:27:31] yes [01:27:33] Eric yes sure yes [01:27:39] thank you everybody have a good night [01:27:41] yeah