Hardwick Select Board: Boiler Crisis, Grants, and Records

[00:00:01] and
[00:00:03] create.
[00:00:09] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[00:00:11] United States of America and to the
[00:00:14] republic for which it stands. One nation
[00:00:17] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[00:00:21] justice for all.
[00:00:30] We're in open session. Visitors
[00:00:33] comments.
[00:00:35] Would you like to start?
[00:00:38] >> Hi, my I don't know where the camera is.
[00:00:42] My name is Judith Con. I'm from Hardwick
[00:00:46] in West Park.
[00:00:48] And um I want to tell the people of
[00:00:51] Hardwick that and especially the select
[00:00:54] board that there will be a meeting of
[00:00:57] the wear select board just now postponed
[00:01:01] to March 2nd I believe in the high
[00:01:04] school in wear and I believe it's 6:30
[00:01:10] um to
[00:01:12] ask the select board of wear to resend
[00:01:16] their
[00:01:17] uh vote. vote.
[00:01:19] The second request to resend the vote to
[00:01:23] give the Lewis Gilbert Trust
[00:01:27] for Mary Lane Hospital back to Bay State
[00:01:32] and a citizen of where asked if I could
[00:01:37] do something about it and get with
[00:01:39] Hardwick. And so, um, I wrote a petition
[00:01:45] to the people
[00:01:47] to rebuild Mary Lane Hospital and start
[00:01:51] new medicine. And I'm asking for the sky
[00:01:53] as long as I'm asking and for our and I
[00:01:59] would hope that our select board in
[00:02:01] Hardwick will um again because they've
[00:02:06] already written a letter to where uh but
[00:02:09] would again get involved and that we
[00:02:12] would all get involved
[00:02:14] um sign this petition or or whatever.
[00:02:19] I'll leave copies here tonight. You can
[00:02:23] take them. I can print more.
[00:02:26] Also, I hope that the
[00:02:30] people aware of Hardwick will come
[00:02:33] together,
[00:02:35] all the people that have been involved
[00:02:37] in medical issues and we can all as one
[00:02:41] unit and hardwick approach um our health
[00:02:49] um risks because we don't have a local
[00:02:52] hospital or rapid access and that it's
[00:02:56] uh ambulance and all that is you know
[00:02:59] difficult at best to get medical
[00:03:02] attention. I hope with we could talk
[00:03:06] together in some smaller group
[00:03:11] otherwise just sign this thing and
[00:03:16] >> that's all.
[00:03:17] >> Thank you.
[00:03:18] >> Thank you. Good job.
[00:03:21] >> Yes ma'am.
[00:03:23] Hi. Um, Meg Height Hardwick Charity Who
[00:03:28] Road. Um, I've been doing some gathering
[00:03:31] of information about grants, which has
[00:03:33] been a hot topic lately because of the
[00:03:35] school boiler situation and I know that
[00:03:38] people are looking at grants and I'm uh
[00:03:40] the current delegate from the planning
[00:03:43] board to CMRPC.
[00:03:45] So, I do participate in learning on um
[00:03:50] podcasts and so on about different
[00:03:51] grants coming up. So, I've got a list of
[00:03:53] some of them here that I just thought I
[00:03:56] would bring to attention and
[00:03:58] particularly can follow up with you,
[00:04:00] Nicole, to you know, sit down.
[00:04:02] >> Justine close.
[00:04:03] >> Yeah, I'mine.
[00:04:06] >> Sorry, that's fine.
[00:04:07] >> Justine.
[00:04:08] Um but just just quickly there's uh a
[00:04:12] couple of people are now looking at
[00:04:14] three different grants potentially for
[00:04:17] um decarbonizations the of the schools
[00:04:21] and energy efficiency of a school mass
[00:04:24] saves. So there's multiple options that
[00:04:27] maybe you can dip into even more than
[00:04:28] one if you had a sequential kind of a a
[00:04:32] game plan on that. Um the community
[00:04:36] one-stop grant is coming up. Um but that
[00:04:39] I got to back up. The green school works
[00:04:41] is deadline of February 13th. So that
[00:04:45] one is right around the corner. The um
[00:04:49] community one stop is coming up for June
[00:04:52] um which helps prepare sites for
[00:04:55] development and supporting your
[00:04:57] downtowns.
[00:04:59] The um community one stop for growth
[00:05:04] uh includes money for rural development
[00:05:06] funds for municipalities
[00:05:08] up to 500,000
[00:05:11] um which you could rehab
[00:05:14] town owned buildings for potential sale
[00:05:17] to a developer kind of thing. Um there's
[00:05:21] a new one called Eco OneTop.
[00:05:25] The deadline is March 20th.
[00:05:28] um environmental and climate one stop
[00:05:31] and it seems there's a couple that could
[00:05:33] benefit Hardwick. Um there's a lot of
[00:05:36] interest in the area for it for for
[00:05:40] culvert replacement and storm water
[00:05:43] water management but also for um
[00:05:47] municipal vulnerability plan um over two
[00:05:51] years
[00:05:51] >> we have we we're in that program we went
[00:05:55] through
[00:05:57] a forum here and what we needed to do to
[00:06:00] get on so we're sad we're eligible
[00:06:03] >> yep and
[00:06:05] this now that we're designated a small
[00:06:07] rural town by the Office of Rural
[00:06:09] Affairs, there's no match required. So,
[00:06:12] that's another thing that's changing
[00:06:14] with some of the grants is that for
[00:06:16] rural communities, the requirement for a
[00:06:18] match is often mitigated.
[00:06:22] Um, the MVP planning 2.0 grant is
[00:06:27] separate from this eco. So, again, it's
[00:06:30] it's tough to keep track of all of these
[00:06:34] Um the Paul Brun historic revitalization
[00:06:39] process is different this year. CMRPC,
[00:06:42] which is our regional planning
[00:06:44] commission, has already gotten
[00:06:45] authorization for $750,000
[00:06:49] for historic um renovation that spurs
[00:06:53] economic development within rural
[00:06:55] communities. It will be very
[00:06:57] competitive, but I think we have a
[00:06:58] couple very competitive uh
[00:07:01] possibilities.
[00:07:03] Um, so these are
[00:07:06] the CMRPC will set up a committee within
[00:07:08] the region. So it's not like this is
[00:07:11] going way far away for a decision. It
[00:07:14] will be much more locally decided on who
[00:07:17] gets grants. There'll probably be a
[00:07:19] couple at 100,000, maybe one at 200,
[00:07:22] maybe a biggie one.
[00:07:24] >> We do have a we're in a grant and it
[00:07:27] just got published today. So it's uh
[00:07:29] it's to renovate the old town hall.
[00:07:32] >> Yeah.
[00:07:33] >> Townhouse.
[00:07:34] >> So that's in motion and that's the broom
[00:07:38] >> uh grant that you just mentioned.
[00:07:39] >> And we're in the one stop too.
[00:07:41] >> Yeah.
[00:07:42] >> Yep. So just to over you know what
[00:07:44] whether we can go for another one
[00:07:46] >> good
[00:07:46] >> is here because I know the page building
[00:07:48] would be an excellent candidate now that
[00:07:50] they're formed. Um,
[00:07:55] but all of this, um, because I know
[00:07:58] there was a lot of discussion about
[00:07:59] people going after grants, I think it
[00:08:01] would be really helpful. Um, and what I
[00:08:04] would recommend is that maybe a couple
[00:08:07] times a year, maybe in the fall and then
[00:08:09] again in January when we get into these
[00:08:12] grant cycles to call up meetings of
[00:08:16] interested parties and boards and so on
[00:08:18] to discuss, you know, plan a little
[00:08:20] ahead what we might go after because a
[00:08:23] lot of these are year after year grants.
[00:08:27] And if we could just at least start
[00:08:29] framing out even a 1 to threeyear kind
[00:08:32] of cycle of let's go for this this and
[00:08:34] this and then the next year I think that
[00:08:36] would be um a real benefit uh to the
[00:08:40] town and prevent you from listening to
[00:08:41] people who know half the story.
[00:08:44] But anyway, I just summarized
[00:08:47] u what these grants are. Thank you.
[00:08:49] Thank you.
[00:08:50] >> There's two copies there. Mr. Chair, can
[00:08:52] I say one thing about grants? Yes,
[00:08:54] ma'am. Um so
[00:08:57] we when we will look for grants we look
[00:08:59] at what the capital planning committee
[00:09:01] has done and like what they've outlined
[00:09:02] as your 1 2 3 4 and so on priority. So
[00:09:05] that's like the main thing that we look
[00:09:06] at when we go for grants. Um but some of
[00:09:09] these I will definitely look into and
[00:09:11] some of them were already in but thank
[00:09:12] you and I look forward to working with
[00:09:15] you.
[00:09:16] And the other thing I would say is that
[00:09:18] CMRPC has often
[00:09:21] volunteered to help us write the grants
[00:09:24] and get them, you know, filed when they
[00:09:28] need to be filed and everything. So,
[00:09:31] they've they've been very encouraging.
[00:09:34] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:35] >> Very good. Thank you.
[00:09:38] >> Yes, sir.
[00:09:39] >> Jeffrey Smith for Church Street. So,
[00:09:41] we've had a number of these executive
[00:09:43] sessions and seems like this one might
[00:09:45] have resolved something. I'm just
[00:09:46] wondering if the board's going to share
[00:09:48] the outcome of what just happened.
[00:09:53] >> I'm not sure I'm allowed to do that yet,
[00:09:55] but I'll go out on a limb and say that
[00:09:58] the board has decided to not take any
[00:10:02] action.
[00:10:04] >> Thank you.
[00:10:04] >> You're welcome.
[00:10:07] Anybody else?
[00:10:10] Ma'am.
[00:10:12] >> Hi. Um, calling superintendent. Would
[00:10:15] >> you like to come up here?
[00:10:16] >> Well, maybe not, but I will. [laughter]
[00:10:20] Um, so Justine had called and um
[00:10:23] requested a copy of the lease. So, I
[00:10:25] brought you that. So, our lease is, just
[00:10:27] so you know, it's from 2005. It is
[00:10:29] signed, but it's it's very old. Oh, you
[00:10:32] have it?
[00:10:32] >> Yeah.
[00:10:34] >> So, I know there was a question about
[00:10:35] that. And then I know at the meeting the
[00:10:38] other night there was uh quite a few
[00:10:40] questions about the boiler. So
[00:10:43] >> I'm happy to just sort of um
[00:10:47] address those. I know that some
[00:10:50] questions were asked that honestly we
[00:10:53] can't answer. But if I can sort of back
[00:10:55] up and tie the lease to the boiler.
[00:10:58] So, according to our lease agreement and
[00:11:00] our regional agreement,
[00:11:03] when we have um a capital project or
[00:11:07] repair that is over between5 and
[00:11:10] $10,000, then we bring that to the town
[00:11:13] of Hardwick because it's your building.
[00:11:16] And so, you have the purview to decide
[00:11:18] sort of what we do with that. If it's an
[00:11:21] emergency repair, if the boiler dies
[00:11:23] tomorrow, we're going to call you and
[00:11:25] we're going to say, "The boiler died
[00:11:27] tomorrow. we're going to have to replace
[00:11:28] it and you know here are the quotes we
[00:11:30] got and this is going to be your
[00:11:31] responsibility. We're going to have to
[00:11:32] move on it. So we're not at the point
[00:11:36] where we think the boiler is dying
[00:11:38] tomorrow so to speak.
[00:11:40] >> And Kevin so to speak
[00:11:43] >> and Kevin can sort of clarify this but
[00:11:45] I'm just going to sorry I talk with my
[00:11:47] hands and not Italian.
[00:11:49] >> Um so the way the building was designed
[00:11:52] we have two boilers. So, it operates
[00:11:54] with two boilers, a primary boiler and a
[00:11:56] backup boiler. And he's looking at me
[00:11:58] like I'm trusting you to get this right.
[00:12:00] So, jump in.
[00:12:01] >> And they are designed to run together
[00:12:03] when we have colder temperatures.
[00:12:05] >> Yeah. So, when we get temperatures like
[00:12:07] this, they're designed to run together.
[00:12:09] The problem we have is that really what
[00:12:11] we consider sort of the secondary boiler
[00:12:14] has um some leakage. It leaks when it
[00:12:18] runs and it leaks when it doesn't run.
[00:12:21] So, we've completely had to shut it
[00:12:22] down. Now, that doesn't mean there's no
[00:12:25] heat in the school. Uh, it doesn't mean
[00:12:28] that it's 40° in the schools. We're
[00:12:30] paying attention to that. But with this
[00:12:33] extreme cold weather, are we worried
[00:12:36] that something might happen?
[00:12:39] >> Yeah, we are.
[00:12:40] >> Right. Um, so I I just want to kind of
[00:12:45] state that when we reached out to
[00:12:47] Justine, our job as sort of the school
[00:12:51] because it's your purview and it's your
[00:12:53] building, right? If you want to look
[00:12:55] into something different, you have every
[00:12:57] right to do that. When we get a repair
[00:13:00] in the building, we make a
[00:13:01] recommendation for replacement of that
[00:13:04] repair based on having someone come in,
[00:13:06] assess the situation that we have at
[00:13:09] hand. [clears throat]
[00:13:10] Does that make sense?
[00:13:11] >> Does that make sense to all of you?
[00:13:14] >> Okay.
[00:13:15] >> So, we're uh looking into auditing
[00:13:17] having the boilers audited.
[00:13:20] >> Um we're waiting on a date on that.
[00:13:23] >> Uh yes. So, we reached out to the
[00:13:25] national grid and mass save and the
[00:13:27] first step would be to audit the which I
[00:13:29] mentioned was is to audit the um energy
[00:13:31] efficiency and the boiler situation. So,
[00:13:33] when I have a confirmed date, I'm I'll
[00:13:35] let you know and we can coordinate that.
[00:13:37] What we have to do is find out how to
[00:13:39] pay for it.
[00:13:40] >> Yes, I figured.
[00:13:42] >> And that's uh and we had the special
[00:13:45] town meeting and it was it's kind of
[00:13:47] tricky. It wasn't actually voted down,
[00:13:49] but it didn't make the 2/3 so it failed.
[00:13:52] >> Okay.
[00:13:52] >> So, now we have to look for other ways
[00:13:55] >> to pay for it.
[00:13:57] >> Excuse me.
[00:13:59] >> Is it is there like what is the next
[00:14:01] step?
[00:14:03] >> Um fix the boiler.
[00:14:07] But if it was if it didn't get voted if
[00:14:09] it wasn't voted down as you said it
[00:14:11] wasn't actually voted down
[00:14:15] >> was it didn't make that two majority so
[00:14:19] it didn't it didn't pass. So, in other
[00:14:22] to raise the money to pull the money out
[00:14:24] of money that we have in town, which
[00:14:26] isn't a whole lot, we need to do
[00:14:30] I got you. Uh, we need to do uh another
[00:14:34] special town meeting and have the people
[00:14:37] vote on it like they did the other
[00:14:39] night. It would be good if we had more
[00:14:42] information. Up till now, we don't. Um,
[00:14:46] we're learning. So that's where we are
[00:14:50] now and uh trying to get this squared
[00:14:55] away before we have an actual emergency.
[00:14:58] Is there any emergency plan that is it
[00:15:01] doesn't seem that
[00:15:02] >> actually possible to be made that as
[00:15:05] that's my biggest
[00:15:06] >> that's a good question
[00:15:07] >> is can we have an emergency plan in
[00:15:09] place should the worst thing happen
[00:15:12] because it makes sense to find the money
[00:15:15] makes total sense and if you could have
[00:15:16] space and time to find
[00:15:18] as much as possible
[00:15:20] >> if we were in May or
[00:15:22] >> June we'd be fine
[00:15:24] >> also there's the question of do we go
[00:15:27] for if we're I'm going to simplify here
[00:15:30] best as I can understand
[00:15:32] about a $60,000
[00:15:34] item.
[00:15:36] So if we borrow the money actually we're
[00:15:39] tapped out as far as
[00:15:42] borrowing money in Hardwick. We can't
[00:15:44] get a short-term loan where nobody will
[00:15:47] lend us money. It has to be a long-term
[00:15:50] loan. So over a 20-year period, we'd pay
[00:15:54] something like $45,000 in interest for
[00:15:57] the $60,000 item. Now, if the boiler
[00:16:01] lasted 20 years, that would be great. If
[00:16:04] the new boiler, this boiler lasted what,
[00:16:07] how old was the building? 30 years old,
[00:16:09] >> maybe something like that. So four.
[00:16:14] >> I was I was the kindergarten class
[00:16:16] there.
[00:16:16] >> Okay, so that's another way to look at
[00:16:19] it. uh do we borrow money? Do we find
[00:16:23] money here? And whatever we do, we have
[00:16:26] to get the town's folk to vote it to do
[00:16:29] it. So, first thing I think is going to
[00:16:32] be another meeting of the capital
[00:16:34] planning committee to try to figure out
[00:16:36] what's next and then as soon as
[00:16:40] possible. I I I pull I wanted to have
[00:16:43] the special town meeting. I thought this
[00:16:47] is an emergency. No kidding. I worry
[00:16:49] about this in the middle of the night
[00:16:51] that there's going to be a phone call
[00:16:53] and the boiler will be all over the
[00:16:54] floor. So
[00:16:57] I guess uh
[00:16:58] >> parents I I can be honest, none of us
[00:17:01] knew it was
[00:17:03] everybody I've spoken to as a parent.
[00:17:05] Nobody knew. So nobody came,
[00:17:07] >> you know.
[00:17:08] >> And not to say anything wrong, it's it
[00:17:12] happened quick.
[00:17:14] >> It happened quick. It happened quick to
[00:17:15] us. Is is there anything that can be
[00:17:18] done again that that what if planning?
[00:17:20] Is there anything that we can do as a
[00:17:22] town as a
[00:17:24] >> Well, I I would I don't want to dump it
[00:17:26] on the school people, but that would be
[00:17:29] something to ask them, too. What are
[00:17:30] they going to do if if the the water
[00:17:34] starts to freeze? I don't know.
[00:17:36] >> Place longgo.
[00:17:39] >> Well, I I believe that the uh boiler was
[00:17:43] installed in ' 92.
[00:17:46] So, it's probably designed sometime
[00:17:48] prior to that time. So, we're talking
[00:17:50] about technology that's 35 years old and
[00:17:55] it's burning
[00:17:57] >> 200 gallons
[00:18:00] >> 270 gallons a day that it's running. It
[00:18:04] seems to me that investing
[00:18:07] $60,000 plus the loan of [clears throat]
[00:18:11] $45,000,
[00:18:13] we're putting a lot of money into old
[00:18:14] technology.
[00:18:16] >> And it we're also putting money into
[00:18:20] technology which is going to require an
[00:18:22] awful lot of oil. And you know, I know
[00:18:27] that, you know, we we need to be able to
[00:18:31] keep the school running and everything,
[00:18:33] but is it possible that I I mean, I've
[00:18:35] heard that there are like 18wheeler
[00:18:40] uh trailers that can come in with
[00:18:41] equipment that could run, you know, in
[00:18:44] the interim
[00:18:46] >> to keep the school, you know, viable and
[00:18:49] everything. But to me, investing over
[00:18:52] $100,000 in 35 year old technology,
[00:18:55] which is going to be using 270 gallons
[00:18:58] of fuel a day doesn't seem like a very
[00:19:02] wise investment 35 [clears throat] years
[00:19:05] later after that technology.
[00:19:07] >> We agree and the capital planning
[00:19:10] agrees. You can't if again this was it's
[00:19:14] the weather that's kind of um keeping
[00:19:17] the ax up but uh
[00:19:23] we have been talking about replacing it
[00:19:26] with propane.
[00:19:28] Is this the best time to do that?
[00:19:32] Do we hope that the boiler continues
[00:19:35] until warm weather and then we replace
[00:19:37] the whole system, which makes excellent
[00:19:39] financial sense, or do we keep Well,
[00:19:43] we're keeping our fingers crossed
[00:19:45] anyway. I don't know about an emergency
[00:19:48] plan. So, well, I would hope that
[00:19:51] Massafe might have more information and
[00:19:55] ideas and avenues for us to explore. So,
[00:19:58] I'm hoping that they can become involved
[00:20:00] sooner than later.
[00:20:01] >> They are doing Mhm.
[00:20:03] >> Mr. Chair, so they are involved. Uh they
[00:20:05] were contacted and that's they require
[00:20:07] um an audit done first, which is that's
[00:20:09] the next step. So finding a date for
[00:20:10] that. So that's that's where we are in
[00:20:11] the process. But they were contacted.
[00:20:13] >> Okay. Great.
[00:20:15] >> Thank you.
[00:20:17] >> This is not [clears throat] a new
[00:20:18] problem. These boilers have been around
[00:20:20] as you pointed out since 1992. So for it
[00:20:22] just to be sneaking up on us seems an
[00:20:26] unfair way to characterize this. I mean,
[00:20:28] these boilers didn't just get old in the
[00:20:30] last month.
[00:20:32] Um, and who contacted Massie? Because it
[00:20:34] wasn't the town administrator. It was
[00:20:36] actually Judy Cororsk that contacted him
[00:20:39] and then she gave the information to the
[00:20:41] town administrator.
[00:20:42] >> She gave me a contact and I contacted
[00:20:44] them.
[00:20:45] >> Would have been nice if somebody could
[00:20:47] have been working on this before it
[00:20:48] became an emergency.
[00:20:50] >> You mean like two months ago
[00:20:52] >> or 6 months ago or a year ago?
[00:20:54] >> Absolutely. all those things and I can
[00:20:57] point to 50
[00:21:00] things like that.
[00:21:02] >> Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Go ahead.
[00:21:04] >> I'd like to ask the superintendent a
[00:21:06] question.
[00:21:06] >> Sure.
[00:21:07] >> Do you have engineering services that
[00:21:09] you use that look at these boilers and
[00:21:11] say, "Okay, this is the optimum plan to
[00:21:13] change this to this or any of that kind
[00:21:17] of services in house or through the
[00:21:19] school system at all."
[00:21:21] >> We have contractors that would come in.
[00:21:23] Well, no. I'm talking engineers that
[00:21:25] Yeah. Okay.
[00:21:26] >> Bottom line is you guys have already
[00:21:27] looked at this back um years ago when
[00:21:29] you had guardian come to the school and
[00:21:31] part of that scope of work was to
[00:21:33] replace these boilers of propane. My
[00:21:35] understanding was you abandoned the
[00:21:36] project back then because it was so
[00:21:39] expensive to bring propane to it. So,
[00:21:41] you have looked into this before as part
[00:21:43] of that project with Guardian. you had
[00:21:45] um the pumps in the boiler room
[00:21:47] replaced, but the project was stopped
[00:21:49] after that because once you realized how
[00:21:51] much it was going to cost to bring
[00:21:52] propane there for the propane boilers,
[00:21:54] my understanding is the project was
[00:21:56] stopped. So, it was looking to be
[00:21:58] >> Okay. Well, they do make energy
[00:21:59] efficient oiler
[00:22:01] boilers that burn like 99 98% efficiency
[00:22:06] just so oil is not like the worst fuel
[00:22:08] source in the world.
[00:22:10] >> Mr. Clerk, do you know when that was?
[00:22:12] >> I don't. It was before me. I'm being
[00:22:14] told that from my engineers that have
[00:22:15] been in the building for the last 26
[00:22:17] years, okay?
[00:22:18] >> But the pump systems that are in there
[00:22:19] are all new technology and as part of
[00:22:22] that was this whole project was supposed
[00:22:24] to happen. Part of the issue that you
[00:22:26] have in the school is not just I mean
[00:22:28] we're talking about the efficiency on
[00:22:29] these boilers, but it's a 32-y old
[00:22:32] boiler. The efficiencies have changed so
[00:22:33] much, you know, amount of oil, fire
[00:22:35] bars, etc. But [clears throat] it's the
[00:22:36] insulation stuff in your school. I mean,
[00:22:38] that's where a lot of your heating load
[00:22:40] is going through the window seals that
[00:22:42] are all blown. you know, your insulation
[00:22:43] for your roof level, everything's going
[00:22:45] out through the roof. So, it's not just
[00:22:46] the efficiency of the boiler. There is
[00:22:48] other attributes to
[00:22:51] >> Yes, sir.
[00:22:52] >> So, I know we're talking about various
[00:22:54] thermal modes, talking about heat,
[00:22:57] >> propane, oil. Um, is this not the time
[00:23:01] to seriously be considering heat pumps?
[00:23:06] Um, to gain the advantages of air
[00:23:09] conditioning as it is also the
[00:23:12] designated shelter for heat emergency
[00:23:15] and [clears throat] for changing.
[00:23:17] >> No, I have to correct you. It's our
[00:23:19] designated public shelter.
[00:23:21] >> So, nothing about cooling center. We're
[00:23:24] trying We have a grant. The MVP grant is
[00:23:27] toward
[00:23:29] setting up AC at the school for a
[00:23:31] cooling center. But it's until this
[00:23:34] year, it's never been talked about.
[00:23:36] >> But this but we now have on the table
[00:23:39] the opportunity to look at a broad a
[00:23:42] much broader picture if we're talking
[00:23:44] about replacing both boilers, which we
[00:23:46] should be. Um, do we look at a complete
[00:23:50] changeover given that we're talking
[00:23:51] about putting solar cells on the roof
[00:23:54] and other upgrades? Do we look at a
[00:23:57] larger longer term picture of getting
[00:23:59] away from fossil fuels on site? I
[00:24:02] understand electricity is generated
[00:24:03] somewhere somehow, but getting away from
[00:24:06] fossil fuels on site and gaining the
[00:24:10] efficiencies of heat pumps.
[00:24:11] >> Yes. Now is obviously the time. It's
[00:24:14] it's only the question of the boiler
[00:24:18] lasting,
[00:24:18] >> right? So, yes, ma'am.
[00:24:21] >> So, we're talking a lot about the costs
[00:24:22] related to the boiler. If worst case
[00:24:26] scenario happens, sorry, I'm very
[00:24:28] focused on this because obviously it's
[00:24:29] going to affect me and my kids and my
[00:24:31] everybody if worst case happens, who is
[00:24:34] the town responsible for that? Would
[00:24:37] insurance cover emergency situation? How
[00:24:40] has that been looked into?
[00:24:43] >> Do you have interruption of business
[00:24:44] insurance? Ma'am,
[00:24:46] >> we do. We have insurance if the boilers.
[00:24:48] So, it would be under a problem. We do
[00:24:50] have the district hold insurance for
[00:24:53] that. Um, the other thing I'll say, and
[00:24:55] this is not necessarily going to make
[00:24:57] you feel better, but um, you know, if we
[00:25:00] had an emergency and [clears throat] we
[00:25:02] needed to do something in the school,
[00:25:04] we've done things like we could
[00:25:06] transport our Hardwick students to
[00:25:08] re-entry grade school for for something
[00:25:10] like that. That is obviously not ideal.
[00:25:13] Um, but we we would be prepared to do
[00:25:17] those kinds of things if that answers
[00:25:19] that question. Yeah, cuz I think that's
[00:25:21] worth considering when you're thinking
[00:25:22] about costs. If
[00:25:24] >> that could be covered, right? The worst
[00:25:27] case scenario could be covered. Don't
[00:25:28] want it happening. Um, but if it did, it
[00:25:33] makes sense to go after the money that
[00:25:37] could actually benefit the school long
[00:25:40] term, right?
[00:25:42] >> Yeah.
[00:25:43] So the
[00:25:45] >> maybe what capital planning's been
[00:25:48] batting this around even before this
[00:25:50] came up. Perhaps a committee, a working
[00:25:56] group to look at some of these choices
[00:26:00] and uh we have people in town who know,
[00:26:03] you know, HVAC and the rest. So
[00:26:07] So you'd probably be interested in being
[00:26:10] on that committee.
[00:26:12] folks.
[00:26:15] Yes, ma'am.
[00:26:16] >> Um I think it would be important because
[00:26:18] at the last meeting where our vote was
[00:26:20] taken, uh a lot of people I attended and
[00:26:24] uh a lot of people walked out saying it
[00:26:26] doesn't seem like there is a plan for an
[00:26:29] emergency.
[00:26:30] >> Apparently,
[00:26:32] if an emergency,
[00:26:34] >> they have [laughter] a plan. So I think
[00:26:36] that would be important information to
[00:26:38] get out into our community to allay the
[00:26:41] concerns that I think a lot of parents
[00:26:43] have right now.
[00:26:44] >> I think even even
[00:26:46] speaking from connections, you know, I I
[00:26:48] think that some parents are concerned,
[00:26:50] but I think some parents aren't even
[00:26:52] aware uh that this is something going
[00:26:55] on, right? So um and I know is
[00:26:58] [clears throat] already aware of this.
[00:26:59] you we've spoken, but that communication
[00:27:02] of what's happening with parents and and
[00:27:05] so that parents are in the loop, but
[00:27:06] also like you said, that reassurance of
[00:27:09] there is stuff cuz that know that makes
[00:27:11] me feel a lot better.
[00:27:12] >> Yeah.
[00:27:12] >> Well, ma'am, not to [clears throat] put
[00:27:15] it on you. Um I mean, we can post
[00:27:19] narrative on our website.
[00:27:20] >> We will send a a family email after
[00:27:23] tonight. That's what I was going to ask.
[00:27:24] >> Send out an email. No worries
[00:27:26] whatsoever. Honestly, we had some
[00:27:27] confusion with the meeting and our
[00:27:30] communication with Justine and thinking
[00:27:32] I don't know, I thought the Fincom had
[00:27:35] spoken about it and so on and so forth.
[00:27:37] So, um, we didn't communicate it cuz we
[00:27:40] honestly
[00:27:42] >> didn't put two and two together that it
[00:27:44] was going up for vote. So, um, you know,
[00:27:47] that did not help.
[00:27:49] >> At what point would it go up for vote
[00:27:50] again? And I I apologize. It takes
[00:27:55] a couple of weeks to post a You're
[00:27:58] talking about another special town
[00:28:00] meeting. So, what has to happen is the
[00:28:03] articles have to be created. We have to
[00:28:06] sign off on it. Then it goes, we post
[00:28:09] them. It has to be out in public for a
[00:28:11] couple of weeks. So, nothing can happen
[00:28:15] legally inside of, you know,
[00:28:18] 3 4 weeks.
[00:28:19] >> Okay.
[00:28:21] >> Yeah. [clears throat]
[00:28:22] Especially if we can come up with
[00:28:25] something.
[00:28:26] >> Yeah.
[00:28:26] >> To ask
[00:28:29] because last time I don't think I know I
[00:28:32] didn't have enough information to really
[00:28:35] know what to ask.
[00:28:36] >> So, and I think that was a problem in
[00:28:39] the
[00:28:41] >> I what I think happened at this last
[00:28:44] meeting is it happened too quickly.
[00:28:47] >> Uh a lot of the committees that
[00:28:49] ordinarily would be involved weren't.
[00:28:51] Yeah.
[00:28:52] >> Um, we had very little information to go
[00:28:55] on.
[00:28:57] >> Um,
[00:28:59] and
[00:29:00] you know, it it you got a lot of towns
[00:29:03] people like you that are just finding
[00:29:05] out about it.
[00:29:07] And uh it it
[00:29:10] if we had more information, if the uh
[00:29:13] finance committee could have looked at
[00:29:14] it, capital planning could have looked
[00:29:17] at it, maybe something could have been
[00:29:19] put together that would have passed.
[00:29:21] Right now, we're not there. I don't
[00:29:24] think we're there.
[00:29:27] >> Well, it'll be a while before we get
[00:29:28] there.
[00:29:30] >> I I understand your um com didn't look
[00:29:33] at it. We did speak to an Eric Fleming.
[00:29:35] I don't know what.
[00:29:36] >> Yeah, Eric Fleming and Mark Corsick.
[00:29:39] They're capital planning committee.
[00:29:42] >> So, Mr. Corors is also on the finance
[00:29:45] committee which didn't look at this.
[00:29:47] Capital planning did.
[00:29:49] >> Okay.
[00:29:49] >> And anything uh over $25,000 has to go
[00:29:54] through capital planning and then they
[00:29:58] suggest to the selectment a course of
[00:30:00] action. So, so again, we can tune this
[00:30:03] up. spoke with Eric Fleming on numerous
[00:30:05] occasions with regards to this and I
[00:30:07] know that he had done some research with
[00:30:08] questions that you guys have had
[00:30:10] >> right
[00:30:10] >> like a RJ McDonald he had spoken with
[00:30:13] them about pro probability of bringing
[00:30:15] in propane etc
[00:30:16] >> right
[00:30:17] >> so some answers
[00:30:19] >> and construction grade uh heating
[00:30:21] systems emergency heating systems that
[00:30:23] kind of thing
[00:30:24] >> right so we just have to find
[00:30:29] we have to boil this down so that we
[00:30:31] know what to go
[00:30:33] Mr. Cole,
[00:30:35] >> thank you. Um, the other night, uh, at
[00:30:38] the special town meeting, which of
[00:30:39] course wasn't televised and so many
[00:30:42] people don't know some of what we all
[00:30:43] learned. Um, and I just wanted to
[00:30:46] reiterate, make sure I understood this
[00:30:47] correctly. So, the two the two boilers
[00:30:50] are the same vintage put in when the
[00:30:52] school was built 32 years ago, maybe.
[00:30:56] Um, one of them that failed had been
[00:30:58] repaired several times prior. Um the the
[00:31:02] other one was has been repaired once but
[00:31:06] as I heard doesn't show any imminent
[00:31:08] signs of of um you know failing. Um the
[00:31:14] idea that we would spend
[00:31:17] that money in the old money in the old
[00:31:19] old for the old technology now to
[00:31:21] replace it um was unattractive to some
[00:31:24] because it does seem to be a time when
[00:31:26] we should be looking at the at the
[00:31:28] bigger picture and alternatives and so
[00:31:29] forth. And yet that's going to take a
[00:31:31] lot of time I imagine even for various
[00:31:34] grants etc. So I guess my questions
[00:31:37] would come down to come down to this. Uh
[00:31:39] clearly people are looking at grants and
[00:31:41] alternatives and that that's great. Um
[00:31:44] it'll take some weeks I know before
[00:31:49] uh a better understanding of the
[00:31:51] viability of that path comes out.
[00:31:53] Capital planning has it on the agenda
[00:31:55] now to look at all of that. um the town
[00:31:59] can come back for the same purpose for a
[00:32:02] a special town meeting to consider
[00:32:04] borrowing again. And as you just pointed
[00:32:06] out, it takes just has to be the warrant
[00:32:08] created by the board and then posted for
[00:32:10] a couple of weeks. Um I'm not sure
[00:32:15] [snorts] how you feel about this, but it
[00:32:17] it might be possible to
[00:32:20] plan on that meeting for some time down
[00:32:22] the road.
[00:32:24] uh gather all the information we can
[00:32:26] about whether there are alternatives we
[00:32:28] should be considering and then go into
[00:32:31] that meeting, that special town meeting,
[00:32:35] able to decide whether or not that
[00:32:37] expenditure had to happen rather than
[00:32:39] having to that whole fix pushed down
[00:32:43] another several weeks beyond
[00:32:46] the time we know whether the grants and
[00:32:48] such are going to work. So the emergency
[00:32:51] comes if both boilers fail and maybe
[00:32:53] that's maybe that's likely because the
[00:32:56] second one's under extra burden now
[00:32:58] working alone. Maybe it's going to last
[00:33:01] another 10 years. But um I think the
[00:33:04] concern and it's good to know there's a
[00:33:07] backup plan but the concern is is that
[00:33:09] we stretch out this period of
[00:33:12] vulnerability
[00:33:14] uh
[00:33:16] too far too long. I think it should be
[00:33:18] stretched out but only while we gather a
[00:33:21] re a realistic idea of what the
[00:33:23] alternatives are. And if that can happen
[00:33:25] in in two or three weeks, great. Um and
[00:33:30] that would be able to be considered at a
[00:33:32] special town meeting when it could be
[00:33:35] decided that the old technology is what
[00:33:37] we have to do. Otherwise, it's all
[00:33:41] six weeks off. Imagine before before
[00:33:44] something could be put in. Well, what
[00:33:47] six weeks to make the decision another
[00:33:49] two at least weeks
[00:33:50] >> and then at least another two to get
[00:33:52] mechanics there,
[00:33:53] >> right?
[00:33:54] >> So, two months, you know, it it's a it's
[00:33:57] a crapshoot.
[00:33:59] We're waiting [clears throat] for
[00:34:01] something to go wrong. It might not go
[00:34:02] wrong.
[00:34:03] >> So, we still need to look at new so we
[00:34:07] don't throw our money away, which puts
[00:34:10] more time on it and more uncertainty.
[00:34:12] So, having a plan, [laughter]
[00:34:16] [clears throat] I was thinking a new
[00:34:17] branch. It's a beautiful building.
[00:34:19] >> It is a beautiful building. We do have
[00:34:20] several classes over there, but um I'm
[00:34:23] sure we can make it work for
[00:34:25] association.
[00:34:27] >> Yes, sir.
[00:34:27] >> Well, and you start talking about two
[00:34:29] months, we're talking about you're into
[00:34:31] April,
[00:34:31] >> right?
[00:34:32] >> So, then the problem begins to become
[00:34:36] not so critical.
[00:34:38] >> Sort of damically gets smaller.
[00:34:40] >> Yes. Yeah. emergency goes away,
[00:34:42] >> you know,
[00:34:43] >> and and if we we have a backup plan and
[00:34:46] if we could bring in an industrial, you
[00:34:50] know, uh system that could run
[00:34:52] temporarily for a month or two, it would
[00:34:56] be expensive, but
[00:34:57] >> thousands of dollars a day.
[00:34:59] >> Yeah. But, you know, we're talking about
[00:35:02] putting over $100,000 into old
[00:35:06] technology. And so, you know, I I think
[00:35:10] we have to really push the pedal to try
[00:35:14] to assess what options are available and
[00:35:18] what it would take and whether they're
[00:35:20] viable based on, you know, whether we
[00:35:23] can get the grants or not. But, you
[00:35:25] know, it definitely should be on the
[00:35:27] front burner.
[00:35:29] >> That's a good analogy. Yes.
[00:35:32] >> Yes. I'd like to say that I want the
[00:35:36] residents of Hardwick to remember that
[00:35:39] this school building is our biggest
[00:35:40] asset in the town and it is our
[00:35:44] responsibility to maintain it. So, it is
[00:35:47] something that we need to get that audit
[00:35:50] done and look at the alternatives, but
[00:35:52] we can't delay this forever either. It's
[00:35:54] very important that we support our
[00:35:57] school system, educate our children in
[00:36:00] our town, and we need to vote on this at
[00:36:05] a special town meeting, which I would
[00:36:07] suggest with the word that gets out that
[00:36:09] it should be in the elementary school
[00:36:13] >> because it's going to be um I would hope
[00:36:15] that the parents of the children would
[00:36:17] be there to support their education at
[00:36:19] the school and a good safe warm
[00:36:23] environment.
[00:36:24] in the town of Harvard. But this is a
[00:36:27] beautiful building. It's aging, but we
[00:36:30] need to support the school and maintain
[00:36:32] that building because that is our
[00:36:34] biggest asset. We don't want it to fall
[00:36:36] on rack and roll un like some of the
[00:36:38] other buildings that we have in town
[00:36:40] that have been under neglect. So, and
[00:36:42] we're on track for your roof this year.
[00:36:45] So, you know, we got the MSBA grant for
[00:36:47] the roof. So, that will help resolve
[00:36:49] some of the loss of the heat. So
[00:36:51] >> yeah,
[00:36:53] >> that's good news. Very good.
[00:36:54] >> Yeah.
[00:36:56] >> Yes, ma'am.
[00:36:58] >> It looks like you're looking at two town
[00:37:00] meetings and as I imagine it, the first
[00:37:04] would be an emergency
[00:37:06] plan
[00:37:08] to cover the period of vulnerability
[00:37:12] and that would require a certain amount
[00:37:15] of money for the town to approve.
[00:37:19] And then at probably the regular annual
[00:37:23] town meeting, you could have the time to
[00:37:27] resolve the ideal plan and do all the
[00:37:32] research
[00:37:33] and that if you structure that right now
[00:37:37] and vote to do that, uh, then people are
[00:37:41] put to work.
[00:37:44] I'm told by somebody that works in
[00:37:46] Cambridge that they have vertical heat
[00:37:51] pumps in their schools and buildings and
[00:37:55] their technology is way ahead of us. Why
[00:37:59] should we take a backseat in this rural
[00:38:03] and make do with uh technologies that
[00:38:07] are obsolete before you even buy them
[00:38:10] and pay for them?
[00:38:11] >> Yes.
[00:38:13] Mr. Chair, I'll I'll answer this.
[00:38:15] >> Um, one of the problems with the new
[00:38:18] technology is, as he mentioned, is the
[00:38:21] building envelope and the insulation,
[00:38:24] the windows, everything like that. It's
[00:38:26] not completely sealed. So, a geothermal
[00:38:28] loop isn't going to work at total
[00:38:31] efficiency in hardware without doing
[00:38:33] that. Okay. But there are benefits. You
[00:38:37] can use it for AC stuff like that, you
[00:38:39] know. And I'm not sure exactly what's in
[00:38:42] the school for a heating system if it's
[00:38:44] for air. It could uh a water loop or
[00:38:47] whatnot. I mean,
[00:38:49] >> it's a water.
[00:38:50] >> It is. Okay. Okay. So, you can use a ge
[00:38:53] geothermal in that instance.
[00:38:56] >> Controls too.
[00:38:57] >> Okay. So, I'm just saying like with the
[00:39:00] new technology, you have to seal the
[00:39:02] building. But but if we don't seal the
[00:39:04] building, if we're using the old
[00:39:06] technology, we're just sending oil out
[00:39:09] through the same windows and the same
[00:39:11] roof without insulation. So we mass save
[00:39:14] would come in and tell us what it would
[00:39:17] be to seal those windows and to insulate
[00:39:21] properly and so forth so that we're not
[00:39:24] throwing money away whether we're using
[00:39:26] a heat pump or whether we're using an
[00:39:28] oil boiler. Exactly. I'm just trying to
[00:39:31] give information to everybody out there
[00:39:33] so they understand. Geothermal is great,
[00:39:36] super efficient, but you got to have the
[00:39:38] right circumstances to make it work.
[00:39:40] It's all I'm saying.
[00:39:41] >> Said specific. Uh, Mrs. Ms. Con, would
[00:39:46] you like to speak?
[00:39:47] >> Uh, yeah. I just a comment and then a
[00:39:50] question. And my comment was, having
[00:39:52] been at the special town meeting last
[00:39:55] week, I think the biggest issue was we
[00:39:57] just didn't have enough information and
[00:39:59] to spend money not knowing what we're
[00:40:04] really needing didn't seem like the
[00:40:07] smartest choices. And if we do have at
[00:40:11] least a few more weeks to figure this
[00:40:14] out and make an informed decision, I
[00:40:17] think that's just going to put the town
[00:40:18] in a better place to make a choice. My
[00:40:21] my question is
[00:40:23] >> we agree.
[00:40:24] >> The
[00:40:26] superintendent said that the lease was
[00:40:28] was old. Is it current?
[00:40:30] >> Yeah. So our lease is 20 years old. We
[00:40:32] just redid our regional agreement and we
[00:40:36] had asked to hold on the lease so we
[00:40:38] could match the language from regional
[00:40:40] agreement to lease. So our regional
[00:40:42] agreement committee is done at the next
[00:40:45] I think what's our date justine the 9th
[00:40:48] I think. Do you have an appointment? On
[00:40:50] the 9th, we're going to do a listening
[00:40:51] session for our regional agreement and
[00:40:54] then once we get through that, we will
[00:40:56] revise the language in the least lease
[00:40:58] to match the regional agreement cuz
[00:41:00] right now it actually doesn't. Um, so
[00:41:04] yes, and then that lease can be as long
[00:41:06] as you want. I mean, the last one was 20
[00:41:08] years. If you want it to be five, it it
[00:41:11] it doesn't matter, but we can deal with
[00:41:14] that when we're through the regional
[00:41:15] agreement process. And these meetings
[00:41:17] and study groups and everything will all
[00:41:19] be posted
[00:41:21] so that you can find them.
[00:41:24] >> Yeah, it'll um it'll be before your
[00:41:26] meeting on February 9th here.
[00:41:29] >> What
[00:41:30] >> the listening thing for the regional
[00:41:31] agreement?
[00:41:32] >> You want to say that louder?
[00:41:34] >> Oh, so um February 9th at 6:00 uh the
[00:41:37] superintendent will be here to do a
[00:41:39] presentation on the regional agreement.
[00:41:43] >> Mr. Cool.
[00:41:46] >> I wonder um when when the school was
[00:41:48] built, how it was financed? I seem to
[00:41:50] remember it was around 1990, right? So,
[00:41:54] um was that a 30-year debt exclusion? Um
[00:41:57] has that come up or I know we've been
[00:41:59] obviously paying for however long it was
[00:42:01] if it was a debt exclusion. When does
[00:42:03] that end? And when will that in a sense
[00:42:05] free up in a sense some uh um some of
[00:42:08] the costs related to the school? Do we
[00:42:10] do we know that?
[00:42:11] >> I I have no idea. It's before my time,
[00:42:14] but there were other agreements and um
[00:42:21] projects. I know the administration
[00:42:24] building over at the high school was one
[00:42:27] and there was another addition, but I
[00:42:29] don't know I don't know about the
[00:42:30] elementary school except I watched it as
[00:42:32] it was building.
[00:42:34] >> I I can So, we charge the town of
[00:42:38] Hardwick a a debt amount each year. The
[00:42:40] only thing that you pay for a debt
[00:42:42] amount currently is on a chiller project
[00:42:45] for the middle high school. Other than
[00:42:47] that, your schools are debtree.
[00:42:52] Does that make sense?
[00:42:53] >> Okay. So, maybe it was maybe we were
[00:42:56] paying for that, but then term is over.
[00:43:02] Okay.
[00:43:05] >> Anybody else?
[00:43:06] >> Yeah. I just hope it still
[00:43:11] >> you. Okay, I'm going to move on.
[00:43:14] Uh, approval of minutes
[00:43:17] September 29th,
[00:43:20] >> Mr. Chairman. Oh, go ahead, Bill.
[00:43:22] >> All right. You beat me.
[00:43:23] >> Well, I'm just saying before you make a
[00:43:25] motion, Jeff.
[00:43:27] Um, I'd like to amend
[00:43:30] the, uh, meeting minutes. Okay. Um,
[00:43:35] right now, let me see.
[00:43:38] I move to amend the September 29th
[00:43:41] select board meeting minutes by striking
[00:43:44] from the minutes. EV asked JC had heard
[00:43:48] back from the accountant prospect. JC
[00:43:52] said she had not with the following
[00:43:55] language to accurately reflect the
[00:43:57] statement made on the record following
[00:44:00] the conclusion of the legal budget under
[00:44:02] her sele um report.
[00:44:06] The chair asked the town administrator
[00:44:08] whether she hired the new accountant.
[00:44:10] The town administrator responded that
[00:44:13] the candidate had been issued an offer
[00:44:15] letter, that he was reviewing it, and
[00:44:18] that she was waiting for or waiting his
[00:44:20] signature. She further stated that the
[00:44:23] [clears throat] offer letter had been
[00:44:24] provided to the candidate earlier that
[00:44:27] afternoon. This is to ensure that the
[00:44:29] meeting the minutes are accurately
[00:44:32] reflected of the discussion that
[00:44:35] occurred.
[00:44:38] I watched the meeting back um because he
[00:44:40] has [clears throat] some questions about
[00:44:41] uh Mr. Jinger has some questions about
[00:44:42] some other that I couldn't find in the
[00:44:44] recording.
[00:44:45] >> I can give you exactly where it is, Mr.
[00:44:47] Chair, if you would like that
[00:44:48] information.
[00:44:50] >> Mr. Sh,
[00:44:54] >> where is it in the
[00:44:55] >> It's in the transcript and it starts at
[00:44:58] 1 hour and 20 seconds.
[00:44:59] >> No, I'm talking about where is it in the
[00:45:02] meeting minutes?
[00:45:04] >> It's not. It was omitted originally and
[00:45:07] if we bring up
[00:45:08] >> strike something.
[00:45:08] >> Yes. Um I'll bring it up. I said at the
[00:45:12] end of her legal budget,
[00:45:17] I'll get it from
[00:45:38] monthly monthly reports for budget.
[00:45:42] It's the bottom line. EV asked if JC
[00:45:46] heard back from the accountant prospect.
[00:45:49] JC said she had not.
[00:45:51] >> Okay. That you're striking that hole.
[00:45:54] >> Strike it right out of the record.
[00:45:55] >> I said that though.
[00:45:58] >> Sir, it's
[00:46:00] You said what?
[00:46:00] >> I said that. I had not heard back around
[00:46:02] that actually. I said that. That's why
[00:46:04] it's in the minutes because they said
[00:46:05] that
[00:46:05] >> the chair I mean if we hear the um board
[00:46:10] we could play the video but I don't have
[00:46:11] the transcript but this is exactly what
[00:46:13] was said. She finished her report. You
[00:46:16] asked her
[00:46:18] this question. Mr. Chair, you asked the
[00:46:21] town administrator whether she had hired
[00:46:23] the new accountant. The town
[00:46:25] administrator responded that the c the
[00:46:28] candidate had not been had been issued
[00:46:30] an offer letter that he has he's
[00:46:33] reviewing it and that she was awaiting
[00:46:36] his signature. Further stated the offer
[00:46:39] letter had been provided to the
[00:46:41] candidate earlier that afternoon
[00:46:43] >> and that
[00:46:45] is in the minutes but not published.
[00:46:48] Right.
[00:46:48] >> You would like that put in the minutes?
[00:46:50] Yes, I would
[00:46:52] as a record because this was a question
[00:46:54] asked by the chair to the town
[00:46:56] administrator with an answer back from
[00:46:58] the town administrator.
[00:46:59] >> Okay.
[00:47:00] >> Okay. And that's exact verbatim.
[00:47:02] >> Well, I I took out one word which was he
[00:47:05] said essentially
[00:47:08] because it wasn't necessary. You got
[00:47:10] your intention here.
[00:47:12] >> Honestly, I don't care.
[00:47:13] >> I I don't really care, but I'll I'll
[00:47:15] look at it. You give me a chance to view
[00:47:17] it.
[00:47:18] >> All right. Would you like the table this
[00:47:19] time?
[00:47:20] >> I would.
[00:47:20] >> Okay.
[00:47:26] >> Anything else?
[00:47:28] >> Well, that's just on September 29th.
[00:47:30] Correct. I don't have an issue with
[00:47:32] December 22nd.
[00:47:33] >> Okay. Then I'll make a motion we uh
[00:47:35] approve uh the meeting minutes as
[00:47:37] written for December 22nd, 2025.
[00:47:40] >> I'll second.
[00:47:42] >> All in favor?
[00:47:43] >> I
[00:47:47] Mr. Chair, can I just ask a question
[00:47:50] going forward? Is it possible to get
[00:47:52] these meeting minutes with page numbers
[00:47:55] and references to areas
[00:47:58] so we can like when a question's asked
[00:48:00] where is it? I can say page eight, you
[00:48:03] know, section 10. We'll look into that.
[00:48:07] Okay.
[00:48:10] Okay. Appointment of Nick Gman to acting
[00:48:14] fire chief. He is acting as the fire
[00:48:18] chief. He was the deputy fire chief and
[00:48:22] uh Josh Peas has resigned.
[00:48:27] >> So I would like motion move to appoint
[00:48:30] Nick Gman as acting fire chief.
[00:48:34] >> I'll second the motion. All in favor?
[00:48:36] >> I
[00:48:39] >> discussion of public records fees.
[00:48:42] >> Yes. This is your item.
[00:48:44] >> Yes, it is.
[00:48:45] >> If it's okay, Mr. Sure.
[00:48:47] >> Okay. I requested this agenda item and
[00:48:52] it has to do with public records
[00:48:54] requests.
[00:48:55] If you give me one second, I'll find my
[00:48:57] notes. You come back to it.
[00:49:00] >> Sure. Discussion and vote on electrical
[00:49:03] inspection fees. You see you're still
[00:49:05] stuck with it.
[00:49:06] >> So, this um was a request from our
[00:49:08] electrical inspector, Don Masso. Um he
[00:49:11] would like an increase to um you'll see
[00:49:13] the print out that he created. um in
[00:49:16] your packet. If voted on tonight and
[00:49:18] approved, I'll put together something a
[00:49:19] little cleaner, but um this was his
[00:49:22] request. He put the same request in for
[00:49:24] new branch. Um so this would also match
[00:49:26] the new bra numbers.
[00:49:29] >> Mr. Shaff, I'll make a motion to approve
[00:49:32] the schedule fee as written.
[00:49:36] >> I'll second it.
[00:49:37] >> Okay. All in favor?
[00:49:39] >> I I
[00:49:45] discussion and vote on the board of
[00:49:47] assessors tax map.
[00:49:50] >> This is something that you um that the
[00:49:52] board votes on annually. This is the
[00:49:54] request of the board of assessors for
[00:49:55] their GIS service agreement.
[00:49:58] >> Make a motion we approve the uh GIS
[00:50:00] services agreement as written.
[00:50:04] >> I'll second it. In favor I
[00:50:07] >> So that sign
[00:50:11] >> Okay. Uh,
[00:50:13] sorry. I'm just looking for
[00:50:17] not members.
[00:50:19] [laughter]
[00:50:20] >> No, mine are actually, sir.
[00:50:24] Okay.
[00:50:25] >> All right. Coming back to the agenda
[00:50:28] item I requested for tonight's meeting.
[00:50:32] And before we begin, I just want to be
[00:50:34] clear about procedure. This is a select
[00:50:36] board discussion. Comments will be
[00:50:38] limited to board members, staff, and
[00:50:40] other elected officials. May provide
[00:50:42] factual clarification only if requested
[00:50:44] by the chair. Please hold all commentary
[00:50:47] unless recognized. And questions will be
[00:50:51] at the end. Okay. And the agenda. Excuse
[00:50:55] me. Yes. That okay with you?
[00:50:58] >> Uh, yeah. I guess that's the way it
[00:51:00] should run anyway.
[00:51:01] >> All right. Well, just I
[00:51:03] >> Do you have a copy of what did
[00:51:05] >> um
[00:51:06] >> not to interrupt but
[00:51:07] >> I do actually
[00:51:08] >> a written copy that as you go share
[00:51:13] >> you can look at these. It's reference to
[00:51:15] these three invoices.
[00:51:23] This agenda item concerns public records
[00:51:26] requests processed by the town
[00:51:27] administrator who is a records access
[00:51:30] officer. The focus is on fees. Uh how
[00:51:34] the fees were assessed, collected, and
[00:51:36] accounted for under Massachusetts public
[00:51:39] records law.
[00:51:45] All right. So during this period, the
[00:51:47] town collected a total of $650 from a
[00:51:50] resident for three public records
[00:51:52] request. The invoices issued by the town
[00:51:57] state that the town would not begin or
[00:52:01] proceed with the public records request
[00:52:03] until payment was received. Conditioning
[00:52:06] uh production on prepayment is not
[00:52:09] permitted under Massachusetts General
[00:52:11] Laws chapter 66 section 10.
[00:52:15] After payment was made, the resident
[00:52:18] received only partial records. He did
[00:52:20] not receive the full records requested
[00:52:23] or what he reasonably believed he was
[00:52:25] paying for. The town retained the full
[00:52:29] $650
[00:52:30] and did not issue a refund.
[00:52:34] There was no itemized accounting of time
[00:52:36] spent researching, reviewing, copying of
[00:52:39] records or no reconciliation showing
[00:52:42] actual time work with refund of any
[00:52:46] unsecured balance as required by statute
[00:52:50] and supervisor records regulations.
[00:52:55] And these are the three invoices.
[00:52:58] So if you have any questions about this
[00:53:00] or
[00:53:03] Do you have any suggestions?
[00:53:04] >> I do. I suggest that we refund the
[00:53:09] citizen
[00:53:12] the $650. And the reason why is, you
[00:53:16] know, he doesn't feel he got his money's
[00:53:19] worth
[00:53:20] >> exactly.
[00:53:21] >> What was missing from them?
[00:53:22] >> Um, I'm not going to get in particulars,
[00:53:24] but I think he only received like 20%
[00:53:28] of the overall.
[00:53:29] >> And what was the reason,
[00:53:31] >> Mr. here.
[00:53:32] >> Yes, ma'am.
[00:53:33] >> Um, so this is actually not a board
[00:53:36] issue. This is set by Mass General Law.
[00:53:38] This is the attorney general's office.
[00:53:40] And this resident may petition the
[00:53:42] supervisor of records if they are
[00:53:44] unhappy, which they did, I think, for a
[00:53:46] couple of them. And the supervisor of
[00:53:48] records sided with the town cuz the town
[00:53:50] provided responsive records in a timely
[00:53:54] manner when we were supposed to. This is
[00:53:56] the process. It's set by the attorney
[00:53:58] general. It's not a board issue and it's
[00:54:00] not going to change. It is a board
[00:54:01] issue, sir, when it comes to public
[00:54:03] funds and money we receive.
[00:54:05] >> If it's a question of money and and he
[00:54:08] paid for a service that he did not get.
[00:54:11] >> Mr. Charity.
[00:54:13] >> Well, Mr. Chair, I didn't ask.
[00:54:15] >> Excuse me, please.
[00:54:15] >> Point of order, Mr. Chair.
[00:54:17] >> Stand. All right.
[00:54:18] >> Stand down for a sec.
[00:54:20] >> You can finish now.
[00:54:22] >> Thank you. Um, so the way the law is
[00:54:25] written, the town spent the time
[00:54:27] searching for the records. That's the
[00:54:29] time this resident was built for. We
[00:54:32] complied with Mass General law, the
[00:54:33] public records law. We complied with the
[00:54:35] AG and what they and I am not the
[00:54:38] records access officer. I'm the backup
[00:54:40] records access officer in the event that
[00:54:42] the town clerk is not available.
[00:54:46] So this was f we follow mass general
[00:54:48] law. This is not set by the town. This
[00:54:50] is set by the state
[00:54:52] >> and the petitioner may petition may
[00:54:55] petition the supervisor of records.
[00:54:56] There is a recourse if he is unhappy
[00:54:58] with this.
[00:54:59] >> Did we take the money?
[00:55:00] >> Of course we did
[00:55:03] because we followed the law and we
[00:55:05] charged him the accurate amount that we
[00:55:07] were supposed to.
[00:55:08] >> Mr. Chair, under best practice. Okay.
[00:55:11] Even when the town administrator is
[00:55:13] designated as a record access officer,
[00:55:16] that designation does not wave statutory
[00:55:19] fees, documentation requirements, or
[00:55:23] reconciliation obligations. Best
[00:55:26] practice requires accurate accounting,
[00:55:28] transparency, and refunds were required.
[00:55:32] >> Oh, absolutely.
[00:55:32] >> He got no record of time spent,
[00:55:36] the missing records. He didn't receive
[00:55:38] those. And if you want, we can pull up
[00:55:40] the emails of everything he requested.
[00:55:43] Have a full discussion on it. Or we can
[00:55:45] re, you know, decide to give this man
[00:55:47] back his money.
[00:55:51] >> We got 20% lighter than he asked for.
[00:55:54] >> Yeah. So, if you want to take 20 off the
[00:55:57] 650 and give them that, but something
[00:56:01] should be done.
[00:56:03] >> And if you want to I'd like to get uh
[00:56:05] you'd like to get this uh squared away
[00:56:07] and have a look at it again. Do you have
[00:56:10] any uh excuse me, do you have any uh
[00:56:15] >> suggestions, sir?
[00:56:16] >> I Well, uh 20%. How accurate is that
[00:56:19] figure?
[00:56:20] >> Well, it's real simple. I It's I'm just
[00:56:24] take
[00:56:25] I'm just taking an educated guess, sir.
[00:56:27] >> Just an educated guess.
[00:56:29] >> Educated guess. But since no records
[00:56:31] exist of time spent,
[00:56:34] >> okay, how do we judge that?
[00:56:36] >> I go back to my original question
[00:56:38] >> which is required.
[00:56:40] >> What exactly is he missing? What exactly
[00:56:45] was asked for? What is he missing?
[00:56:49] >> Well, if we could get that Yeah. print
[00:56:52] it up, then we could make a decision.
[00:56:54] >> I would like to give them a refund and
[00:56:57] clear the decks here.
[00:56:59] >> Okay.
[00:57:00] >> So, um, but I don't know what. So, I
[00:57:03] would [clears throat] recommend that we
[00:57:05] table this as well and
[00:57:06] >> Okay.
[00:57:07] >> bring it up at our next meeting.
[00:57:09] >> Okay. So,
[00:57:11] I would like the record to reflect that,
[00:57:13] you know, a refund vote will be put on
[00:57:15] our next agenda to address this.
[00:57:18] >> Okay. A discussion and vote.
[00:57:19] >> A discussion and vote. Yeah, fair
[00:57:22] enough. Good. All right.
[00:57:24] >> Do you want your
[00:57:25] >> No, no, they have that.
[00:57:27] >> They need more paperwork.
[00:57:31] >> Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[00:57:32] >> You're welcome.
[00:57:34] >> Town administrator reports.
[00:57:40] >> Um, but first I just would like to say
[00:57:42] that the town is I would speak to the
[00:57:44] town clerk because I don't think it's a
[00:57:47] select word decision for the refund.
[00:57:49] >> We'll talk to the town. That sounds
[00:57:51] great.
[00:57:51] >> Well, it should be done in the public
[00:57:53] meeting session. I'll talk to the
[00:57:55] tenant. Okay.
[00:57:57] >> Um, so I met with the select board
[00:57:58] chair, CMRBC and Herson officials on the
[00:58:00] MVP project. Um, had a call with Joe
[00:58:03] Ferguson from Central Mass Regional
[00:58:04] Planning on the CDBG project. Um, so we
[00:58:07] are looking at ADA um, improvements for
[00:58:09] the police station, this building, and
[00:58:11] also the next phase of the memorial park
[00:58:13] project. Um, I attended a memorial park
[00:58:15] meeting with such a mass regional
[00:58:17] planning, the police chie chief Eric
[00:58:19] Fleming.
[00:58:20] Um, we had a meeting with the residents
[00:58:23] on Highland Terrace to discuss the new
[00:58:24] infrastructure project with the highway
[00:58:26] superintendent, highway clerk, and
[00:58:28] central Mass Regional Planning. I think
[00:58:29] I've spent a lot of time with them. Uh,
[00:58:32] we held our bi-weekly financial
[00:58:33] management planning meeting with the
[00:58:34] assessor, accountant, and treasurer
[00:58:36] collector. Um, so I we were working on
[00:58:39] two police department grants. Uh we
[00:58:41] actually were awarded one of them which
[00:58:43] uh I didn't know at the time I was
[00:58:44] putting this together. So we actually
[00:58:45] were awarded one of the grants.
[00:58:47] >> What's the grant for?
[00:58:48] >> Um so it's a small one. Uh we apply for
[00:58:51] it every year. It's a wellness grant
[00:58:52] through our insurance company. Last year
[00:58:54] we applied for it for the highway. We
[00:58:55] didn't get it. This year I applied for
[00:58:57] it for the police. We got it. Next year
[00:58:58] I'm probably going to do this uh town
[00:59:00] hall and then the year after I'll do
[00:59:02] fire.
[00:59:03] >> So we get the grant is money or just to
[00:59:06] add a boy or
[00:59:07] >> it's uh $2,500. It's so it's small but
[00:59:10] um something right.
[00:59:11] >> Thank you.
[00:59:12] >> Yeah.
[00:59:13] >> Um so I'm working on the FY27 budget. Um
[00:59:16] we have to order a few more budget
[00:59:17] books. So the next board meeting on
[00:59:19] February 9th, you will have a
[00:59:20] preliminary budget in front of you.
[00:59:24] Um with your budget book. So I don't
[00:59:25] know. Did you you gave me your budget
[00:59:27] book, right?
[00:59:27] >> No.
[00:59:28] >> Oh. Um
[00:59:29] >> I returned my Yes.
[00:59:31] >> So um we did order some more. Um just
[00:59:33] Yeah.
[00:59:35] So, we're advertising for a wastewater
[00:59:37] treatment plant operator, a highway
[00:59:38] equipment operator, and a van driver. We
[00:59:40] had an interview for a highway equipment
[00:59:42] operator. Um, so that's actually also
[00:59:44] going to be on your next meeting agenda.
[00:59:47] Um, had the wear radio interview. I
[00:59:49] attended the Massachusetts Municipal
[00:59:51] Association annual meeting, received our
[00:59:53] health insurance ranges were which were
[00:59:55] bleak. Um, it was really great. I went
[00:59:58] to a borrowing um session for municipal
[01:00:00] borrowing, a labor law update. Um and
[01:00:03] then a fiscal outlook, which was also
[01:00:05] depressing. Um met with our the reps for
[01:00:09] our website because in about a year and
[01:00:12] a half, we're not going to be ADA
[01:00:13] compliant on the website. Um met with um
[01:00:16] Massa Bid on our gravel project. So I
[01:00:19] have a call with them and our highway
[01:00:21] superintendent next week. So look for
[01:00:23] that coming up um in an upcoming
[01:00:25] meeting. um
[01:00:28] uh you know with other town
[01:00:30] administrators and select board members.
[01:00:32] It was um this is my seventh or eighth
[01:00:34] year. It was great. Um I met with our
[01:00:37] out outgoing fire chief and acting fire
[01:00:39] chief.
[01:00:40] Um I met with the acting fire chief,
[01:00:42] police chief and the lesser fire chief
[01:00:44] on transition and just networking for
[01:00:46] him and just um giving him the
[01:00:48] opportunity to just you know ask
[01:00:50] questions and um which you you saw you
[01:00:53] were there with him.
[01:00:56] Um
[01:00:59] but I want to recognize Josh Peas, our
[01:01:01] outgoing fire chief. Um this one was
[01:01:03] tough um for his years of dedicated
[01:01:06] service to the town of hardreach and the
[01:01:07] fire department. Um Mr. Peas is working
[01:01:11] full-time for the town of Palmer as a
[01:01:13] the police detective. So, unfortunately,
[01:01:16] he just couldn't um balance both. Um so,
[01:01:19] it's definitely a tough loss. Um and
[01:01:22] he'll definitely be missed.
[01:01:24] Um I met, which isn't on here cuz we had
[01:01:27] to reschedule the meeting, but today I
[01:01:29] met with um Lisa Swanson from the master
[01:01:32] plan committee. Um so, we talked about
[01:01:34] master plan and Christmas on the common
[01:01:36] and other stuff. So, um,
[01:01:39] that was that was good. Um, Senator
[01:01:42] Durant and Representative Berthume are
[01:01:44] holding office hours on February 11th
[01:01:47] from 10 to 11:00 in this room. And I
[01:01:50] think that's all I have tonight.
[01:01:52] >> Thank you.
[01:01:52] >> You're welcome.
[01:01:54] >> Selectment round table.
[01:01:56] >> I just want to uh give a shout out to
[01:01:59] our highway department. Uh,
[01:02:03] I work in a town that has 10 times the
[01:02:06] population of Hardwood
[01:02:09] and our roads are a,000% better than
[01:02:14] where than uh in the city that I've
[01:02:16] worked. So,
[01:02:18] >> you're I I travel a long distance and
[01:02:24] our highway department does a very good
[01:02:26] job on our roads. Even in Wheelright,
[01:02:28] they even get us plowed. So,
[01:02:31] >> [laughter]
[01:02:38] >> I'd like to say thank you um to the
[01:02:41] community of Hardwick, my my the
[01:02:44] outpouring to my wife. She she sustained
[01:02:46] an injury and she's been laid up, but I
[01:02:50] just want to say thank you to everybody
[01:02:52] who's helped with that situation. And
[01:02:55] from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
[01:02:58] Good. Thank you.
[01:03:02] Okay. Uh,
[01:03:05] Mr. Jmer,
[01:03:06] >> I don't have anything.
[01:03:07] >> Just uh, this is missing a word. I just
[01:03:09] wanted you to have it. Okay.
[01:03:11] >> Missing a word. We're going to go into
[01:03:13] an exe another executive session
[01:03:16] and you'll all have to leave and we
[01:03:19] won't be coming back to an open meeting
[01:03:24] >> for a while. I'm just listening.
[01:03:30] Not
[01:03:32] coming back.
[01:03:37] Please
[01:03:54] discuss this.
[01:04:06] We need to discuss