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Fiscal Year 2026 Budget Review and Key Departmental Staffing Discussions

Original title: 06/02/25 - Hardwick, MA Select Board Meeting

These meeting notes are AI-generated and unofficial. They are provided for convenience and are not official Town records or approved municipal minutes. Verify all details using the source video and official Town documents.

Meeting details

Date

June 2, 2025

Duration

1h 26m

Decisions

10 recorded

Action Items

17 assigned

Summary

The Hardwick Select Board convened to reconsider and finalize the Fiscal Year 2026 municipal budget before its submission to Town Meeting. Key discussions focused on reallocating funds within the Highway Department, addressing the financial structure of the Sewer Enterprise Fund, and thoroughly reviewing debt and insurance figures. A significant portion of the meeting was dedicated to the status of the elected Town Clerk position, with debate over whether to formally designate it as full-time and the appropriate procedural steps. The board also explored new revenue streams, such as increasing the meals tax and implementing an occupancy tax, while grappling with concerns about potential future negative balances and the need for fiscal responsibility.

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Discussion Highlights

A motion to reconsider the Fiscal Year 2026 municipal budget passed to allow for further discussion and revisions.
The Finance Committee currently lacks a quorum, limiting their ability to vote on budget matters.
The FY26 budget document includes a $3,000 allocation for the Select Board, updated debt numbers, and revised property and casualty insurance figures, resulting in lower overall numbers.
The Sewer Enterprise Fund will now bear its appropriate share of debt, correcting historical misallocations, and a $10,000 fee is budgeted for town employee work.
A 'stress test' for the Sewer Enterprise Fund budget was strongly recommended to identify potential unforeseen expenses.
The Highway Superintendent's labor position will be fully funded for a full year, and the Town Clerk's budget start date was moved to July 1st.
The Highway Department's Foreman position will not be filled this fiscal year, with its allocated funds reallocated to hire a new Truck Driver Laborer 2 and increase truck driver wages.
Discussion regarding the Town Clerk position's status (elected, part-time vs. full-time workload) and the need for a bylaw amendment to formally change its designation.
The town is exploring increasing the meals tax (to 0.75% or 1%) and implementing an occupancy tax for short-term rentals to generate additional revenue.
Concerns were raised about potential future negative balances ($100,000-$145,000) for the next fiscal year, primarily due to pension obligations and underfunded accounts.
The current town copier costs $2,800 per month, and a new copier package is estimated at $11,000, with funding challenges due to fiscal year transitions.

Transcript (14,872 words)

Lightly cleaned for readability. Each timestamp opens the video at that point.

00:00:01
I don't want the camera. I can rolling. Um, yes. A motion. Sure.
00:00:16
Motion is I move to reconsider the select board's prior vote to approve the fiscal year 2026 municipal budget so that board may reopen the full budget for further discussion potential revisions and revote before submission to the town meeting. I'll second all in favor.
00:00:39
Mr. chair. Um, so the finance committee doesn't have a quorum, uh, which means that they can listen, but they can't take any votes. I don't know if Glenn or Glen or Leon is supposed to be coming.
00:00:51
One of them is. I don't I haven't talked to them. Chris was supposed to, but Chris asked me to stand in for him, so I'll act on his behalf. And we won't deliberate until we have a quorum. Well, we can get your input. Yes, I would I would say that would be okay to do.
00:01:11
All right. Well, who wants to start? We're going to go through item by item. We're going to go through major changes. Mr. Chairman, maybe we should go through it and see what has changed,
00:01:30
You know, which changes. Good. Can echo that if you would like. Thank you.
00:01:37
So you'll see and this is the document that was in your packet at the last select board meeting. Um so nothing it's the exact same document. Um so you'll notice that at the prior meeting you guys had discussed not funding the select board budget
00:01:56
For your um so that is I changed that to $3,000. Um so that's changed. Um some of the other changes, let's just go down here. Um we kind of mentioned it at the last meeting were the debt numbers. Um we gone through that with a fine tooth comb. Um cleaned

[00:00:01] I don't [00:00:02] want the [00:00:04] camera. I [00:00:07] can rolling. Um, [00:00:12] yes. A motion. Sure. [00:00:16] Uh motion [00:00:18] is I move to reconsider the select [00:00:20] board's prior vote to approve the fiscal [00:00:23] year 2026 municipal budget so that board [00:00:27] may reopen the full budget for further [00:00:29] discussion potential revisions and [00:00:31] revote before submission to the town [00:00:33] meeting. I'll second all in favor. [00:00:39] Mr. chair. Um, so the finance committee [00:00:42] doesn't have a quorum, uh, which means [00:00:44] that they can listen, but they can't [00:00:46] take any votes. I don't know if Glenn or [00:00:49] Glen or Leon is supposed to be coming. [00:00:51] One of them is. I don't I haven't talked [00:00:53] to them. Chris was supposed to, but [00:00:56] Chris asked me to stand in for him, so [00:00:59] I'll act on his behalf. And we won't [00:01:02] deliberate until we have a quorum. Well, [00:01:04] we can get your input. Yes, I would I [00:01:06] would say that would be okay to do. [00:01:11] All right. Well, who wants to [00:01:15] start? We're going to go through item by [00:01:20] item. We're going to go through major [00:01:23] changes. Mr. Chairman, maybe we should [00:01:26] go through it and see what has changed, [00:01:30] you know, which changes. Good. Can echo [00:01:34] that if you would like. Thank you. [00:01:37] Um so you'll see and this is the um [00:01:40] document that was in your packet at the [00:01:41] last select board meeting. Um so nothing [00:01:45] it's the exact same document. Um so [00:01:47] you'll notice that at the prior meeting [00:01:50] you guys had discussed [00:01:52] um not funding the select board budget [00:01:56] for your um so that is I changed that to [00:01:59] $3,000. Um so that's [00:02:02] changed. Um some of the other changes, [00:02:05] let's just go down here. Um we kind of [00:02:08] mentioned it at the last meeting were [00:02:11] the debt numbers. Um we gone through [00:02:13] that with a fine tooth comb. Um cleaned [00:02:16] that up and made and made it more [00:02:17] accurate to reflect what we actually [00:02:19] have for debt with between our principal [00:02:21] and interest. Um we got our final [00:02:23] property and casualty insurance numbers. [00:02:26] So that number wasn't accurate at um a [00:02:30] meeting, not your last meeting, but the [00:02:32] meeting two meetings ago. Um so that [00:02:34] number has changed. [00:02:37] Can I just ask a question? Did that [00:02:39] number which number are you talking [00:02:40] about on this p page here? [00:02:43] So I'll get to that page. [00:02:53] So, one, two. So, the last [00:02:58] page, it's like the bottom half or the [00:03:02] um it's under the parts of um you'll see [00:03:05] the grand total of budgets. Nope. You'll [00:03:08] see the debt principal, debt principal, [00:03:11] interest principle. Oh, that didn't [00:03:13] change the principal band, but you'll [00:03:14] see um the town hall, the land, the debt [00:03:18] exclusion. Um there were a couple other [00:03:20] column like maturing debt and interest. [00:03:22] that number has changed. Uh so the debt [00:03:25] principal exempt the debt principal [00:03:27] interest. Um [00:03:29] excuse me. I'm not I'm not seeing it. So [00:03:32] on the last [00:03:33] page [00:03:37] last is the last page on the one I'm [00:03:40] looking at. [00:03:43] Okay. Now when you say they changed, did [00:03:46] they go down? Yeah. Okay. That's what I [00:03:49] figured. Yeah. No. So, um, we went [00:03:52] through every either debt exclusion, [00:03:54] every loan, everything that the town has [00:03:57] and went through everything to make sure [00:03:58] that the number is accurate. This is as [00:04:00] accurate as the numbers has been in the [00:04:02] last, I don't know, John, several years. [00:04:04] Several years. Yeah. Because what [00:04:07] happens with the debt exclusions a lot [00:04:10] of times, um, some of them are half and [00:04:13] half between the general, um, budget and [00:04:17] the sewer budget. And so for the last [00:04:21] few years we've been getting wrong [00:04:23] information and they were all put on the [00:04:27] most part um the general budget was [00:04:31] bearing it the burden right. [00:04:35] Um so we really sorted that. [00:04:38] Just as a clarification for everybody, [00:04:40] my understanding is that uh previous [00:04:43] boards of select select boards have [00:04:46] indicated what where the debt was going [00:04:48] to be split. For instance, 50% for the [00:04:50] by the sewer department, 50% by the [00:04:53] town. So, so you have the uh the [00:04:58] enterprise fund essentially picking up [00:05:00] the debt that was in here in full, [00:05:03] picking up half that debt. up until this [00:05:05] year, we've been paying full full [00:05:07] freight. Uh, you know, I'm I'm not sure [00:05:10] that because I'm not sure that we have [00:05:12] the we we don't see the individual books [00:05:15] for the for the sewer commission, right? [00:05:18] So, I can't tell you how much they bore. [00:05:20] Yeah. Cuz my understanding was when we [00:05:23] were on capital [00:05:24] planning, that was being taken out. Now [00:05:27] maybe not budgeted but the enterprise [00:05:30] fund was paying principal and interest [00:05:33] on the sewer project on the certain [00:05:35] amount. Right. Yeah. Right. And one of [00:05:38] them was was this the the loan for the [00:05:41] from the state for the sewer project. [00:05:44] Well yeah they split that in half. [00:05:47] Exactly. We've had quite a few debt [00:05:49] exclusions for the sewer project. I [00:05:52] think one started in 2008. Mhm. Um and [00:05:57] it was never correctly right you know [00:06:01] divided as the selectman [00:06:03] had and part of the ballot question I [00:06:07] think was two of them were half and half [00:06:10] one of them wasn't right [00:06:12] um and that was a condition of the debt [00:06:16] exclusions that were passed by the [00:06:19] voters yeah I guess my [00:06:22] recommendation would be you know you you [00:06:24] might want to look or at least since [00:06:26] you're also the sewer commissioners, you [00:06:28] might want to pay special attention to [00:06:30] their budget to make sure there's not a [00:06:33] budget buster in there too because now [00:06:36] that some of that has been allocated to [00:06:38] them, then they should have enough [00:06:40] money, but the question becomes at what [00:06:43] point in time do you break the bank, [00:06:44] right? How much has been allocated to [00:06:46] them? How much has been allocate? it's [00:06:49] been um whatever the debt exclusion um [00:06:53] the half the debt exclusion was the the [00:06:55] sewer is not a part of the operating [00:06:57] budget they're their own separate budget [00:07:00] um so Scott um has been working on that [00:07:03] with myself the town account the [00:07:05] assessor um we have numbers there but [00:07:08] we're now we're waiting for the treasur [00:07:10] collector to put their portion of like [00:07:12] the Medicare portion of the unemployment [00:07:15] um so it doesn't all fall on the town um [00:07:18] they they pay a portion of that. And as [00:07:20] you know, um we've had this conversation [00:07:22] before, but just for this conversation, [00:07:24] we did budget a $10,000 fee to the sewer [00:07:28] enterprise for the work that the town [00:07:30] oper uh through the town operating [00:07:32] budget through uh town employees doing [00:07:34] sewer enterprise work. Um so that is [00:07:37] getting [00:07:40] their stuff is getting essentially if I [00:07:42] understand this right the the the uh [00:07:45] sewer budget or this the enterprise fund [00:07:48] becomes somewhat of a relief valve when [00:07:51] you can find and allocate certain [00:07:53] expenses that you feel you're bearing [00:07:55] for them and they're not doing their [00:07:57] fair share. So so that's so that's a [00:08:01] little bit of change in policy. So you [00:08:04] just money Yeah. Well, it's finding [00:08:06] money, but also being aware of the fact [00:08:08] that that if if the enterprise fund goes [00:08:12] downside, it's your problem. It's our [00:08:15] problem. I was going to bring that up. [00:08:16] If if they're separate, but if they go [00:08:19] under, we own them. Well, we do anyway [00:08:23] because if they go into a negative in [00:08:25] any year, it automatically goes on the [00:08:28] tax rate. Right. Right. And it's been uh [00:08:31] your uh suggestion, Mr. Of course, if [00:08:34] the in the capital planning meetings [00:08:37] that we do a somehow we do a stress [00:08:40] test. I I would only be and it's not a [00:08:43] finance committee recommendation. this [00:08:45] would be a capital planning uh [00:08:47] recommendation simply because if you [00:08:49] don't do a stress test on their books [00:08:53] um let's just say that something [00:08:56] seriously fails that we didn't take [00:08:57] there were like many alternates that [00:08:59] were never never chosen which would have [00:09:01] given us the ideal um sewer sewer [00:09:05] department but because we because of the [00:09:07] delay in time and the budget increases [00:09:09] and inflation and everything else uh we [00:09:12] we didn't do all of them so if for some [00:09:14] reason, you know, there's a necessity to [00:09:18] do it and it's not being covered any [00:09:20] longer once the sewer project is [00:09:23] completed. Um, it'll come on the [00:09:25] enterprise fund to to to take care of an [00:09:28] emergency or something that we wanted to [00:09:31] do but never could do. So I would just [00:09:33] think along those lines is if you think [00:09:35] you got a great balanced budget, you [00:09:38] also want to make sure the enterprise [00:09:39] fund is solid. All indications are that [00:09:42] it is, but you want to know how solid, [00:09:45] especially if you're going to lean on [00:09:47] that for that relief valve of, you know, [00:09:50] expenses. It's it's it's a wise move to [00:09:52] do. No problem with allocations of [00:09:55] covering overhead. So Mr. Sure. Every [00:09:59] month I when I get the town's um year to [00:10:02] date like what we've had for [00:10:04] expenditures and revenues and [00:10:05] everything, I also do get sewers. [00:10:07] Actually, I think I shared shared one of [00:10:09] them with you at one point. The sewer [00:10:11] budget or the sewer year, right? I think [00:10:13] it is some total maybe, but not not an [00:10:15] individual. I don't I don't think I've [00:10:17] ever seen one. So, yep. Something. Um [00:10:19] so, every month I when I I go through [00:10:22] the towns with a fine tooth clone, I do [00:10:24] also look at the sewer. Um but um [00:10:30] maybe we look at a some kind of quasi [00:10:32] audit. I can share all that information [00:10:35] with you as well. All right. Well, we're [00:10:36] supposed to be the sort commissioners. [00:10:39] Did you have Yeah. How did you come up [00:10:41] with the 10,000 to allocate from the [00:10:43] sewer to cover the town expenses? So, I [00:10:46] don't know if it's going to cover the [00:10:47] town expenses. is I wanted to pick a [00:10:49] conservative number that we could [00:10:50] justify to the state and then once we [00:10:53] start doing this and it's becomes part [00:10:54] of our regular practice, we'll be able [00:10:56] to figure out what is the actual real [00:10:58] number. So this is just the first year [00:10:59] we're doing something like this. Again, [00:11:01] I picked a very conservative number [00:11:03] because that's a number that we can [00:11:04] justify to the state. again once we have [00:11:07] a year of this under our belt and we can [00:11:09] actually see um because I would have to [00:11:11] take a look at every person's salary um [00:11:13] and figure out how many hours actually [00:11:16] are spent where like between the [00:11:17] treasure between Sandy and my office [00:11:19] between Jen and those town employees [00:11:21] that do the sewer work. So again, I [00:11:23] wanted to start with a very conservative [00:11:25] number cuz it's the first year. Okay. [00:11:28] So how are you going to track this going [00:11:30] through the year? Like what is the plan? [00:11:33] Everybody gonna like is Jen going to [00:11:35] track her hours? Like are you like this [00:11:37] particular week I did 10 hours of my [00:11:39] time? Probably not a on a weekly basis, [00:11:41] but probably a monthly basis. Yes. Well, [00:11:44] how would you how would it be accurate [00:11:46] going forward if you're not doing it on [00:11:48] a weekly basis because if it's monthly, [00:11:50] you're going to forget. There's a lot of [00:11:51] things that are happening, distractions, [00:11:53] priorities, emergencies, stuff like [00:11:56] that. It should I recommend you do it on [00:11:58] a weekly basis, right? and those [00:12:00] individual employee army however it [00:12:02] makes sense for them but for me I'm [00:12:03] going to um it's going to be a monthly [00:12:06] basis for my like the sheet that I'm [00:12:07] going to create. Okay. So um and I think [00:12:10] it actually was kind of considered the [00:12:14] hours kind of ballpark. Yeah. So it [00:12:17] wasn't just a number out of the air. It [00:12:19] was like, you know, how long does it [00:12:22] take for the treasurer to deal with [00:12:25] anything for the indep [00:12:28] um the um what is it the billing and [00:12:32] stuff? Yeah, the billing and everything. [00:12:34] And the same with the collector who [00:12:37] hands out her hand and gets the it in. [00:12:40] Um and you know and then the billing [00:12:43] part of it to takes quite a few hours. [00:12:46] Okay. And and the collection's right. [00:12:48] and collection. Yeah. Collection as [00:12:50] well. Yeah. Um all that the bookkeeping [00:12:53] and everything on that. And I would [00:12:55] suggest that if you if you wanted to [00:12:56] take it really down to the fine tube [00:12:59] cone, you might look at the select board [00:13:01] as being commissioners. It's part of [00:13:04] that [00:13:05] $3,000 budget. You're you're acting not [00:13:08] as selectman all the time, but you might [00:13:09] be also acting as sewer commissioners. [00:13:11] You could allocate. So you could [00:13:12] allocate some of that cost too. [00:13:15] So um that was the in fact you're taking [00:13:17] care of some of it watching the uh the [00:13:20] improvement rather than somebody who's [00:13:23] dipping your foot in it. [00:13:25] Okay. [00:13:27] So that's the justification. No, I agree [00:13:30] and it's good and I am just saying the [00:13:32] more detailed we can be the better it's [00:13:35] going to be as far as records go and we [00:13:37] ask for the state and we can ask for [00:13:39] more money. We we'll have the backup [00:13:40] data to support all this. [00:13:43] So, um [00:13:46] I I was just agreeing with that's all. [00:13:49] Um the other changes, major changes that [00:13:51] are in this document [00:13:54] um from that conversation that you guys [00:13:57] had a couple meetings ago was [00:14:00] um there was a decision made to half [00:14:04] fund one of Marty's I'm sorry, one of [00:14:06] the highway superintendent um labor [00:14:08] positions. um we ended up losing an [00:14:11] employee uh that we were going to [00:14:12] interview. Um we so this budget will [00:14:16] reflect that being a full year not [00:14:18] starting in January. Um so now we are [00:14:20] actively looking to try to fill that [00:14:22] position. Um the other thing that this [00:14:25] budget will show that is different is [00:14:28] the town clerk instead of starting in [00:14:31] October or January, it's starting July [00:14:34] 1st. So those are the big differences. [00:14:36] Again, this was this was in your packet [00:14:38] at the last meeting, but it's different [00:14:40] from what you saw at the meeting prior [00:14:41] to that. So, and where is that? Now, [00:14:44] clerk. Yeah. Oh, sure. First page. [00:14:49] Well, I have a question regarding the [00:14:50] DPW. Which line item is it in this? Oh, [00:14:53] sure. Um, so I'll just do the clerk [00:14:55] first because that's what I'm [00:14:59] right here. First page. [00:15:08] Um, so it looks like from on my sheet [00:15:11] it's the third page. Um, you'll see the [00:15:14] highway and then you'll see the truck [00:15:16] driver labor one, truck driver laborer [00:15:18] two. Um, excuse me. [00:15:24] Third one. Okay. This one highway [00:15:31] 44 that right there. Okay. Yep. Highway [00:15:34] survey. Surveyor. Yep. Y. Okay. [00:15:39] Is that And then there laborer one, [00:15:41] laborer two. Yeah. And it's laborer two [00:15:44] that [00:15:45] we're talking about here. How many [00:15:48] people are on this crew right now? Uh we [00:15:50] have Marty, we have Mike, we have Mike [00:15:53] have [00:15:54] deval himself. Okay, we have so [00:15:57] including him is three and then there's [00:15:59] one seasonal employee uh Mr. Walker um [00:16:03] that's reflected in this budget um that [00:16:05] he started a little bit earlier to help [00:16:06] him get ready for Memorial Day and do [00:16:08] some of the um So does he have an [00:16:11] assistant superintendent, Marty? Yes, he [00:16:15] does. Matt. Yes. Sorry, I couldn't [00:16:17] remember his name. Okay. Okay. Does he [00:16:20] have a foreman? No. All right. So, no [00:16:23] foreman. He doesn't have a foreman. No. [00:16:26] All right. So, no. He was moving the [00:16:28] foreman into a regular position. Okay. [00:16:32] So, right there, that foreman is is it [00:16:35] is budgeted, but it's unoccupied. So, [00:16:38] right now, that's [00:16:41] $57,558 that's not being allocated. So [00:16:44] even though we made a postponement till [00:16:47] January 1st on that budget to hire [00:16:49] somebody, he could still hire somebody [00:16:52] July 1 cuz he could pull from that [00:16:54] money. [00:16:57] I think that's what he needs to do, [00:16:58] right? However, so the [00:17:00] uh initially when this budget was uh [00:17:04] born, there was a mower labor position [00:17:06] that that position we took away and [00:17:08] instead put money towards Cecil if you [00:17:10] remember that conversation from a [00:17:11] finance committee meeting. Yeah. I I [00:17:12] want to I just want to go back and [00:17:14] understand this because what I read here [00:17:16] is if that if that foreman's position is [00:17:19] not filled right now, right? Is it [00:17:22] intended to be filled? That's so it's [00:17:24] posted. I mean the personnel committee [00:17:27] has So the position that's posted right [00:17:29] now is the truck driver labor position. [00:17:32] Um one and two. The number there's two. [00:17:34] No, we have one already in that [00:17:36] position. Mr. Draw, right? Um so I think [00:17:40] the intention is to fill it. I think he [00:17:42] needs the bodies. But just so we we're [00:17:45] clear here, there was another position [00:17:48] budgeted as part of his budget in this [00:17:50] budget, the FY25 budget. He had a a [00:17:52] mower labor position. He's never filled [00:17:55] that as long as I've been here. So that [00:17:57] position was the one that was cut and [00:17:59] that would also that also would [00:18:01] eliminate the benefits for that [00:18:02] position. So we added some seasonal help [00:18:05] cuz you really need things for PE. So [00:18:07] that's that was that rationale. Good. [00:18:09] All right. So I want to just on that [00:18:11] third page just to follow along what [00:18:13] Bill saying want to circle the names of [00:18:15] the positions that are currently filled. [00:18:17] Sure. Highway surveyor that's yeah uh [00:18:20] driver laborer one yes exists. Yes. [00:18:25] Driver laborer two is being advertised [00:18:30] right now. [00:18:31] Y and assistant superintendent. Yes. [00:18:35] Yes. Is filled or not filled? It's not [00:18:38] filled. Okay. So, [00:18:40] there's the foreman is not fil is not [00:18:44] filled and will not be filled. It's the [00:18:48] intent to fill it. It's just not filled [00:18:50] right now. We've discussed [00:18:53] advertisement. If I may, Mr. Chair, um [00:18:56] we we have discussed that that [00:18:58] money some of it be used to increase [00:19:01] some of the truck driver pay. So we even [00:19:05] though we're underfunded or not [00:19:06] underfunded but underpaying to to raise [00:19:10] that level a a little bit to make us [00:19:12] more competitive. Yeah. Um [00:19:16] so 6 months ago we did I was we did that [00:19:18] last but also we're still we're still [00:19:22] low we're still low as far as pay goes [00:19:24] for a truck driver and stuff like that. [00:19:26] So, we've talked about this about using [00:19:29] some of this money. So, that forming job [00:19:32] is is not going to be filled this year. [00:19:34] And we're going to use that money [00:19:37] to to [00:19:39] offset to hire a new truck driver, truck [00:19:42] driver, labor, too, and also increase [00:19:45] their wages if they have to to get [00:19:48] somebody in those positions. Mr. [00:19:50] Chairman. Yes, sir. Uh so [00:19:53] then if if that money is being used [00:19:56] elsewhere, we do still have that line [00:19:59] item as a formant. Do [00:20:03] we question will that be carried over to [00:20:06] next year then which would be a problem [00:20:07] to the budget? [00:20:11] Yeah and no. Like we we have to figure [00:20:14] out what he actually really needs cuz he [00:20:18] needs more than just two laborers. And [00:20:20] it doesn't really matter what we call [00:20:22] them, right? You know, he needs the he [00:20:25] what you call them is what you'll pay [00:20:27] them for your personnel. So, we're going [00:20:29] to leave that form and job in there and [00:20:31] that allocation of money there, but [00:20:34] empty of people, right? But it's it's a [00:20:38] it's a resource for Marty that he has it [00:20:40] in his budget because he's going to need [00:20:42] additional people. He might need a third [00:20:44] labor or a truck driver. We don't know. [00:20:46] It's it's we got to talk to Marty and [00:20:48] ask him his input. What is he going to [00:20:51] need going forward? So that [00:20:53] $57,000 figure isn't [00:20:58] necessarily going to be completely used. [00:21:01] Correct. Possibly. And it would roll [00:21:04] back to free cash. Correct. Possibly. [00:21:06] That's that's Well, I mean, I'm not the [00:21:08] one in charge. He's in charge. I mean, I [00:21:10] don't know what his demands are right [00:21:12] now. We know he needs a truck driver, [00:21:15] plow guy before January 1st. We know [00:21:17] that. So, he can definitely hire a guy [00:21:20] tomorrow. [00:21:22] Find the body, right? [00:21:24] So, the point is why why don't we have a [00:21:28] truck driver laborer three and get rid [00:21:31] of the foreman and put them under there [00:21:33] as a lower salary? [00:21:36] I Mr. [00:21:38] I would not recommend doing anything [00:21:41] like that at this juncture um until we [00:21:44] have a conversation with the highway [00:21:45] superintendent. Even even if we leave it [00:21:49] the way it is right now and and to get [00:21:51] through town meeting the the personnel [00:21:53] committee could we could sit down with [00:21:54] Marty and have a conversation and see [00:21:57] you know if like to Mr. Tanker's point [00:22:00] um if we need to reallocate it somewhere [00:22:01] else or if we absolutely need create a [00:22:03] new position or eliminate a position. [00:22:05] You just want to also take it up in the [00:22:07] fall. Yeah. Yes. However, if you take it [00:22:10] up in the fall, then 20 fiscal 27 budget [00:22:16] will will be a sizable increase. We [00:22:18] don't want surprises like that. Correct. [00:22:21] Well, right now we do not have [00:22:25] um truck driver laborer number two and [00:22:27] we have allocated $44,76. [00:22:31] And that's and that's a posted position [00:22:33] that you're interviewing for. We're [00:22:35] trying to interview for Yes. Let's go. [00:22:37] Yeah. So, we have So, technically in [00:22:40] this budget, we have [00:22:42] 57558 and [00:22:47] $44,767.80 of open positions that are [00:22:51] being funded in his DPW. So, so let me [00:22:54] ask this question, Bill. Sure. Let's [00:22:56] look at the prior year, which is the [00:22:59] budget you're working under now. That's [00:23:01] there and that person isn't hired yet. [00:23:03] So you have a 51268. [00:23:07] Mhm. All right. But that's going to free [00:23:09] cash or is that being used to pay snow [00:23:11] and ice? I mean, well, if we hire [00:23:12] somebody next week, we'll use some of [00:23:15] that money to finish the year, right? [00:23:19] We're finishing the year. Well, you have [00:23:21] the laborer one and laborer two, and you [00:23:23] don't have the laborer two hired yet [00:23:25] either. And it was budgeted the previous [00:23:27] year, right? [00:23:29] Well, it's it's showing that it was. Oh, [00:23:31] you're talking about this year and the [00:23:33] in all the vacancies and everything. [00:23:34] That's what you're talking about. [00:23:38] 25 this this year. Yeah. Yes. We You [00:23:41] don't You're not You're not Those [00:23:44] positions are in full, but they're [00:23:45] budgeted. They're not filled right now, [00:23:48] right? Those truck driver one of them is [00:23:50] is one vacant truck driver position, but [00:23:54] the foreman But the foreman is also [00:23:55] vacant. Yes. So all I'm saying is if I [00:24:00] get this right 94 almost 945 [00:24:05] is not been spent now correct that's [00:24:10] actually [00:24:11] so see I I understand that his his [00:24:16] question is [00:24:17] my confusion too we we have positions [00:24:20] that aren't filled yet we still have [00:24:22] them in our budget right we budgeted for [00:24:25] those and we haven't used them yet. But [00:24:28] it doesn't mean we haven't tried. No, I [00:24:30] understand that. But please [00:24:33] Lori, do you want to speak to any of [00:24:35] this highway clerk? Right. Oh, okay. Two [00:24:39] years he basically been working for with [00:24:42] one person because we cannot get [00:24:44] positions filled. Luckily, this year [00:24:46] we've got two positions filled, but we [00:24:50] don't have them all filled. Whatever we [00:24:52] don't [00:24:53] use helps you guys. Mhm. at the end of [00:24:56] the year because of the snow and ice, [00:24:59] right? That's that's what I was asking. [00:25:02] That's that's where your snow and ice [00:25:04] coverage is coming from. Yes. And [00:25:05] Martney just text me back cuz I took a [00:25:08] picture of the budget and I asked him if [00:25:10] this is correct and he said no. So can [00:25:13] I'll go out speak to him and you can [00:25:16] move on to a different department except [00:25:18] for police. I want to come back. Okay. [00:25:23] Agreeable. Agreeable. [00:25:27] I'll be right back. Thank you. [00:25:31] So, the only other major change was the [00:25:33] um town clerk position, right, Mr. [00:25:37] Chair? [00:25:39] Yes, you have. Um, regarding the town [00:25:41] clerk, the town clerk is an elected [00:25:45] official. Okay. So, our bylaws say they [00:25:50] address the town clerk position and it [00:25:52] doesn't list the town clerk is part-time [00:25:54] or full-time, but past practice it's [00:25:58] been a part-time [00:25:59] position. [00:26:02] So, my point here is the warrant [00:26:06] article, this would have to be addressed [00:26:08] through the voters at an annual town [00:26:11] meeting. [00:26:13] So the nearest one is in the [00:26:16] fall to take this up because it's not on [00:26:19] the town articles for June [00:26:23] 7th to amend the bylaw, amend [00:26:26] information to put it in there to make [00:26:29] this clerk full-time if it's warranted. [00:26:36] So this is Do you mind if I speak to [00:26:38] this? Um sorry. Um, it's an elected [00:26:42] official, right? 33,000 in change that [00:26:46] he's currently making is not a [00:26:47] sustainable wage for someone to work [00:26:49] full-time hours. Therefore, the town [00:26:51] clerk has to work elsewhere for other [00:26:53] hours. I mean, no one can live off 30. [00:26:56] That's just not So, um, it's in the [00:26:59] budget for um the full-time beyond what [00:27:03] he is currently working to reflect a [00:27:06] full-time wage. Um that is completely up [00:27:09] to your discretion. Um right now it's [00:27:12] here again after this conversation I can [00:27:14] amend it to what you guys see fit. Um [00:27:18] however I mean it's it's not on the town [00:27:21] articles. We can't amend anything cuz it [00:27:23] has to go to the voters. It's in the [00:27:25] budget. Well article 9. Please hear me [00:27:28] out. It's not on the article for January [00:27:30] 7th. Okay. To change this position from [00:27:33] part-time to full-time. And like I said, [00:27:36] the bylaws, it's an elected official. [00:27:39] It's an elected position. And we don't [00:27:42] have the authority to change [00:27:44] anything pursuant to that without [00:27:46] bringing it to the voters at an either [00:27:49] annual town meeting through the article [00:27:52] or in the fall [00:27:57] procedure. Bill. Yes. [00:28:01] So what you're saying is [00:28:03] that according to the town [00:28:06] bylaws right now, the town clerk [00:28:09] position is an elected official [00:28:13] position. It's a part-time position. No, [00:28:17] it doesn't say part-time and it doesn't [00:28:19] say full-time. That's why it has to be [00:28:21] amended. Isn't that the issue? Whether [00:28:25] it's full-time or part-time. No, the [00:28:27] issue is it's an elected [00:28:30] official, okay, by the public. And we [00:28:33] have a town bylaw. And in order to [00:28:35] change this to a full-time position, [00:28:37] that bylaw needs to be amended. And then [00:28:39] that bylaw gets amended through annual [00:28:42] and special town meetings. Correct. Yes, [00:28:46] ma'am. Does the bylaw say specifically [00:28:49] our town clerk, our elected town clerk [00:28:51] is a part-time official? It does not. [00:28:55] But past practice, it's always been [00:28:58] part-time. So, so we're changing it. [00:29:02] Okay. And Paula used to [00:29:05] work literally full time. Even though [00:29:09] she was only paid part-time when she was [00:29:12] town clerk, she used to work Saturdays. [00:29:14] She'd stay Monday [00:29:16] evenings. She worked th those hours are [00:29:20] justified for a full-time town clerk. [00:29:24] Unless we have it in our bylaw as bill [00:29:27] that it is specified as part-time, I [00:29:32] can't see where we would have to go to [00:29:34] town meeting and we What are we [00:29:36] changing? We're changing from part time [00:29:38] to full time. But it [00:29:40] doesn't giving him a raise to work the [00:29:43] hours that he's working. Exactly. Is [00:29:45] what you're That's kind of what we're [00:29:47] saying is that it's a raise to [00:29:49] accommodate the hours that he's actually [00:29:51] working. Yes. What do you call it? Part [00:29:53] time. There's excuse me, there's [00:29:56] another part to this. If it's it goes to [00:30:00] full-time, then there are benefits. [00:30:02] Yeah. Involved. So, I'm thinking this is [00:30:07] also a personnel committee kind of a [00:30:09] thing, Mr. Chair, where we're talking [00:30:11] about setting up a position or [00:30:14] increasing a position. He's already [00:30:16] qualified for benefits. [00:30:19] Is is he getting benefits? He doesn't. [00:30:21] He doesn't elect to take them, but he [00:30:24] does qualify for them and he does have [00:30:25] that option currently. Like if he wanted [00:30:27] to right in open enrollment right now, [00:30:29] he could technically sign up for [00:30:30] benefits today. He's eligible for them, [00:30:32] but he does he elects to not take that [00:30:34] because he works more than 19 hours a [00:30:36] week. Yeah. And it was set up that way [00:30:39] many year I don't I don't want to speak [00:30:40] to when I wasn't here, but it was set up [00:30:42] u many years ago that the that the [00:30:44] elected town clerk uh is eligible for [00:30:46] benefits. [00:30:49] I I don't know if I can remember that. [00:30:51] But um he doesn't take them, but he's [00:30:54] eligible for them. Well, it's a [00:30:57] part-time position. [00:30:59] It But why is it? Well, that I can't [00:31:03] speak to, but it is a part-time [00:31:04] position. But but I have to say all of [00:31:08] our jobs change over the years. So, what [00:31:11] was probably years ago, you know, [00:31:14] when it was part-time, it was a Saturday [00:31:18] morning job, I think, when Paula started [00:31:21] first and then it's just evolved into [00:31:24] full time. I mean, that's But it hasn't. [00:31:29] We're We're talking about making it [00:31:31] full-time now. Yeah. Because the [00:31:34] hours require that it be full time. The [00:31:38] work involved. Yeah. Right. Right. [00:31:42] I'm not looking to take anything. Thank [00:31:45] you. Okay. We've got enough opinions [00:31:50] here. Where do you want to go with this? [00:31:54] Personally, I I think we form a [00:31:56] committee. Okay. that one member from [00:32:00] the select board, one me member from the [00:32:02] finance committee, three members from [00:32:03] the public to look at the clerk's role [00:32:07] to to assess the costs, the salaries, [00:32:09] the benefits, um the actual duties, [00:32:13] workloads of the position, compare it [00:32:15] with similar size towns that have [00:32:17] population approximately 2,800 where the [00:32:20] typical role is part-time per the [00:32:23] department of labor and uh services and [00:32:27] report back to the select board a [00:32:29] written report and recommendation no [00:32:31] later than September 30th so we can put [00:32:34] it on the fall and like me we can draw [00:32:38] up an article amend the bylaw and put it [00:32:41] to the voters we don't even know if [00:32:43] we're having one in the fall yet we [00:32:45] always have one in the fall we have it [00:32:46] twice a year we do have one in the fall [00:32:49] and we have had others lately and [00:32:52] probably in the near future so uh [00:32:55] special town meetings are not that big a [00:32:57] Deal, right? [00:32:59] Can have them right in this room. Yep. [00:33:03] Well, that's not a bad idea. Well, [00:33:06] please excuse me. That's a good idea. [00:33:10] Um I I love to set up committees. Mhm. I [00:33:15] did share with you that in the first [00:33:16] year of this country's existence, they [00:33:19] had 218 committees that they started up. [00:33:23] So, I don't want to get into [00:33:25] that. Mr. Sh. [00:33:28] Um, what is the committee deciding? The [00:33:33] the purpose of the committee shall [00:33:35] determine whether the town clerk role [00:33:38] warrants conversion to [00:33:40] full-time. Assess the associated costs [00:33:43] with being full-time, including salary, [00:33:45] benefits, vacation time, sick time, all [00:33:48] of that. Okay. Pension. um review actual [00:33:53] duties and workload of the position. [00:33:56] Compare it with similar size towns of [00:33:58] Hardwood's population, which is I'm [00:34:00] saying approximately 2,800, but [00:34:02] sometimes you see 3,000, sometimes the [00:34:05] census say 2,200. I mean, we So, I'm [00:34:08] throwing out a number of 2800 cuz I [00:34:10] think that's somewhere in the general [00:34:12] ballpark. Okay? It's not exactly [00:34:14] accurate, but it's close enough. And so [00:34:17] they they're going to meet, they're [00:34:19] going to do the due [00:34:21] diligence, and they're going to decide [00:34:23] and create a report and come back to the [00:34:26] select board and hand us this report and [00:34:28] say, "This is what we think. We think he [00:34:31] the recommendation is he goes full-time. [00:34:33] This is what it's going to cost the [00:34:34] town. This is what he's allocated now [00:34:36] for budget. This is going to be the [00:34:38] increase with all the benefits." And [00:34:41] then the select board can make that [00:34:43] decision based off of that information. [00:34:46] and we vote and we put it on the special [00:34:49] town meeting in the fall. [00:34:51] Well, go ahead. [00:34:54] If the the way you're talking about the [00:34:57] town clerk's position Mhm. is as [00:35:00] if we're hiring him. As if it's an [00:35:04] appointed position, right? But it's not. [00:35:06] It is not an appointed position. It's an [00:35:08] elected position. It's an elected [00:35:10] position. There is no stipulation as to [00:35:13] whether it's full-time, part-time. [00:35:16] That's why it has to go to the voters. [00:35:18] By has on it's it's [00:35:22] there's nothing in the bylaw that says [00:35:24] whether it's full-time, part-time. If [00:35:26] that position as an elected position is [00:35:29] taking full-time hours, which I I know [00:35:33] Paula used to put in, she did well over [00:35:35] full-time hours. [00:35:39] I don't know. [00:35:40] I mean, this is a budgetary issue. We're [00:35:44] we're putting in a full-time salary for [00:35:48] something that is very much a full-time [00:35:50] position. Why do we have to go through [00:35:52] all this bill? It's already it's already [00:35:55] an elected position, right? And [00:35:57] unfortunately, and there's nothing there [00:35:59] that tells you and there is nothing in [00:36:02] there that says whether it's full-time, [00:36:04] part-time. We can make it a No, we can't [00:36:06] answer. Yes, we can. It's a it's it [00:36:10] there's nothing stipulating the number [00:36:12] of hours that you have in practice the [00:36:15] jobs practice is people working [00:36:20] full-time wages. They weren't getting [00:36:22] paid for it. Well, so past practice has [00:36:26] been paid full a part-time salary. We [00:36:29] are talking about changing it to a [00:36:31] full-time salary that affects benefits, [00:36:34] vacation, sick time, all that stuff [00:36:36] which we do not have an accurate cost on [00:36:38] that. So I am actually saying we do our [00:36:41] due diligence. We don't rush this. We [00:36:44] figure it out and technology over the [00:36:46] last 10 years sir has changed [00:36:48] dramatically. We have high speeded [00:36:50] copers, highspeed scanners, cell phones [00:36:54] computers We [00:36:56] got the same. It's all there. all sorts [00:36:59] of stuff that he has to deal with that [00:37:01] we didn't have to deal with based on our [00:37:04] population has always been a part-time [00:37:06] position. Mr. Chair, yes ma'am. My two [00:37:09] cents. Um, so from my understanding, I [00:37:12] did have a conversation with the prior [00:37:14] select board chair and it was my [00:37:15] understanding based on that conversation [00:37:17] that the select board a year ago before [00:37:18] I started discuss this and discuss [00:37:21] bringing him to full-time and it was [00:37:23] correct and it was the conversation was [00:37:24] it would be the town would wait till the [00:37:26] fall and we never did that. So this is a [00:37:29] year later of this person waiting with [00:37:31] the expectation that the board would [00:37:33] take this up. Um, my fear is is is going [00:37:36] to be that we might lose this person. [00:37:39] Okay. Um I'm but I'm just going to give [00:37:41] you all the information that I have. Um [00:37:43] again based on my conversation with the [00:37:44] chair based on this uh the clerk um and [00:37:47] based on my understanding of the [00:37:48] situation that [00:37:50] um that's where this could go. I don't [00:37:53] think it would will but that is um in [00:37:55] the back of my mind because uh this [00:37:57] person has waited that full year um [00:37:59] since that conversation a year ago. [00:38:01] Yeah, I agree that was that did happen [00:38:04] last year [00:38:08] and I wasn't here as that conversation. [00:38:10] So, so I don't know before your time. [00:38:12] Well, I was on the board last year. [00:38:16] Mr. Corzuk, you got anything to I wish I [00:38:19] could say something, but because there's [00:38:21] a conflict of interest, I won't. Oh, [00:38:24] yeah. That's true. Well, so we're [00:38:26] appointed by the moderator, sir. Not the [00:38:28] No, appointed by the same person we're [00:38:30] talking about. Well, the moderator [00:38:32] appoints the finance committee. We were [00:38:34] talking about the clerk's position. I [00:38:35] believe that we were advised that that [00:38:38] would be a contract because it's too [00:38:39] sticky. Okay. Ethical committee said it [00:38:42] was a sticky area because it's the same [00:38:45] person. Okay. I love to jump in, but [00:38:51] it's not worth it. Write us a letter. [00:38:53] We're going to [00:38:56] Lori back. [00:38:59] I'm back. Um, I have to fine-tune it [00:39:02] tomorrow with Marty. However, a rough [00:39:06] number. [00:39:08] The foreman is not supposed to be on [00:39:10] here. Um, the foreman was supposed to be [00:39:13] moved down to a mower position. So, [00:39:17] Marty wants to keep the seasonal for [00:39:19] 5,000. [00:39:21] He wants the mower to be [00:39:26] um I think he said 20,000 but that's a [00:39:30] part-time mower because if we did it as [00:39:34] a fulltime at $20 an hour it would be 20 [00:39:38] over 25,000. So what's the number for [00:39:40] mowing? So 20,000 you said 20. So [00:39:45] highway gets 20 90 hours a year divided [00:39:48] by two. So that's 100 I mean 1,045 hours [00:39:52] for part-time at $20 an [00:39:59] hour. We were getting rid of the mower [00:40:02] or the seasonal help. That was the [00:40:04] exchange. But the seasonal help is [00:40:08] 5,000. So instead of the foreman, he [00:40:10] wants the mower is my understanding you. [00:40:15] So the foreman position 20,900 of that [00:40:19] is going to a mower. [00:40:23] So instead of a All right. Thank you. [00:40:26] Then the um labor positions have two [00:40:30] different rates here. Currently the [00:40:32] laborer is getting $25 an hour. So if we [00:40:35] multiply the 2% for that [00:40:37] person, that person should be getting [00:40:42] $25.50 50 cents an hour times [00:40:47] 20 90 hours [00:40:50] where I do the 52.2 instead of 2090 my [00:40:54] 52.2 weeks. [00:40:57] Um I went through and counted the days [00:41:00] and the hours exact. [00:41:03] Just Yeah. If you don't mind do the 52.2 [00:41:06] instead on what? Uh for the weeks [00:41:09] instead of the hours. [00:41:11] 52.2. Yep. [00:41:22] thinking [00:41:25] 25 [00:41:27] oh 25.5 [00:41:31] * 52.2 [00:41:34] Mhm. [00:41:35] that [00:41:36] equals [00:41:41] 1,331. Do I multiply that by [00:41:45] something? He gets this per [00:41:51] hour* [00:41:53] 52.2 that's [00:41:55] the okay it will be off I believe but [00:42:00] we'll see when we do [00:42:02] that. So Justine thinks it's [00:42:08] 53,244 for laborer 1. 53,244. [00:42:14] Correct. For labor one. Y and laborer [00:42:17] two. If we get a laborer two. [00:42:21] Yep. So they'll be getting the same [00:42:23] amount. 53244. [00:42:26] Correct. Okay. That's $25.50. [00:42:30] All right. So there's 10 roughly 10,000 [00:42:32] each. increase. So how much [00:42:36] Matt on the 17 the assistant [00:42:41] superintendent we believe his rate is [00:42:43] incorrect. [00:42:45] He um we believe and I have to double [00:42:48] check this when I get back to the [00:42:51] office. Okay. [00:43:00] And doing it um Justine's way. His [00:43:05] should be [00:43:08] 62,039 91. There you go. Okay. 60,88170. [00:43:16] So you have [00:43:19] 5755860 that we're going to take $20,000 [00:43:23] from for the mower. Mhm. And then I have [00:43:27] to subtract the other differences [00:43:30] roughly 10 time another 20. So So I [00:43:33] think we're giving you about 13 [00:43:36] to$15,000 that you can use or you can [00:43:39] share in our other line items, right? or [00:43:42] increase the [00:43:43] truck needed. Yeah. And I think if if [00:43:47] make it simple, we take the bottom line [00:43:49] total highway the before and after would [00:43:53] be a lot more helpful because I got so [00:43:55] many numbers I've written down right [00:43:57] now. I'm not sure. It's like a Rubik's [00:43:58] cube. So, so the the fiscal 25 budget [00:44:02] was 587390. [00:44:05] Mhm. The 26 recommended is [00:44:08] 641734. with all that we just said. What [00:44:11] is that number now? I have all the right [00:44:14] numbers that she read. I just have to [00:44:15] enter it. And well, this is not I know, [00:44:18] right? Right. But it would still be the [00:44:20] same numbers because you're going to [00:44:22] you're going to make it come out to the [00:44:24] same number. Yeah, because the remaining [00:44:25] 13 or still in there. So that bottom [00:44:29] last number will stay the same. Stay the [00:44:31] exact same. Okay. All right. That's [00:44:33] fine. Good. So there we in aggregate, [00:44:35] you know, the the number that the [00:44:38] highway department number is what we [00:44:40] would be concerned about, right? If you [00:44:44] move those things around, as long as [00:44:46] there there are no additional [00:44:49] uh no additional impacts because of [00:44:53] hiring the benefits, [00:44:56] that might be something you want want to [00:44:58] take into [00:44:59] account because I'm not sure I'm [00:45:02] assuming that [00:45:04] benefits is somewhere else in here. Yep. [00:45:07] Right. [00:45:09] But they would they would But there's [00:45:11] two positions that haven't been filled. [00:45:13] Therefore, you're not paying benefits on [00:45:16] currently. They're already accounted for [00:45:18] um this year and next year. Yes. All [00:45:20] right. That's good. You had a question [00:45:23] over here. Yeah. That additional money [00:45:25] that you're just going to have to plug [00:45:26] it in somewhere else. So, if you add it [00:45:28] to snow and ice, theoretically that 13 [00:45:30] or 14,000. Yeah. Well, because if you [00:45:32] just take all that out, you're going to [00:45:33] end up with a lower number essentially. [00:45:39] But in a performant position, [00:45:43] so we'll give you better numbers [00:45:46] tomorrow morning by 8:00. I already I [00:45:49] have them. Um I need to start doing [00:45:50] motions and stuff tomorrow, so just send [00:45:52] it to me, but I'll check it with what I [00:45:54] just I just want to make sure that 6:41 [00:45:56] 7:34 stays the same. It's going to stay [00:45:58] exactly the Let's make sure it [00:46:02] doesn't bottom lines are the same. Yeah. [00:46:07] All right. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. [00:46:12] Big Oh, uh there's one other big change [00:46:14] if you'd like me to go on to the last [00:46:16] one was [00:46:18] um the um over surplus overlay [00:46:23] um is in the budget and not in an [00:46:28] article. Um, but I can let the assessor [00:46:31] speak to that. So, the overlay surplus [00:46:34] is if you have you seen the motions yet? [00:46:38] We're going to be raising X amount and [00:46:41] using the 62,000 whatever change of um [00:46:45] Olay surplus for the for this budget [00:46:50] to get under two and a half. To get [00:46:52] under two and a half. Yeah. They haven't [00:46:53] seen the motions cuz they're not I need [00:46:55] numbers to put in there before I send it [00:46:57] to them. [00:46:58] Okay. So, you'll see that we're going to [00:47:01] raise in taxation x amount and we're [00:47:04] going to use [00:47:07] 62,000 500 and something [00:47:10] um in overlay surplus for our for our [00:47:13] working budget. [00:47:15] Correct. Very last page. [00:47:18] I will be reading that on your last page [00:47:20] or my last page. I don't know. [00:47:24] I don't have your last page. 62,3547. [00:47:32] Okay. [00:47:35] Now, question, Mr. Chair. Um, is this [00:47:38] the money that we allocated 42,000 of it [00:47:40] to stabilization fund and the remaining [00:47:42] 20,000 to um free cash that has to get [00:47:47] approval by the board to spend rent. Oh, [00:47:51] is this still the same? Yeah, I think [00:47:54] so. [00:47:56] So, if there's articles for that, if [00:47:59] we're not when we're not taking it, [00:48:01] you're taking it. Well, the assessment [00:48:04] the budget is taken from when the budget [00:48:05] is taken. So, the thing was the [00:48:08] selectman could have taken it and used [00:48:10] it somewhere else. Exactly. [00:48:13] As it is, the budget will take it and [00:48:15] what happens next year? [00:48:17] Yeah. You say larger negative deficit [00:48:21] perhaps. [00:48:22] Well, well, I mean, if all other things [00:48:24] being an equal, it will. So, perhaps I [00:48:26] can, right? It will. Yep. We got more uh [00:48:30] we got more insurance coming in. [00:48:33] I mean, that's from insurance, Mr. Sher. [00:48:35] I can speak to that if you'd like. [00:48:37] Insurance. Um, so we are we're actually [00:48:41] going to have a savings hopefully in [00:48:43] insurance next year. [00:48:44] Um, we stayed with Maya this year. Um, [00:48:47] but next year we're looking at other [00:48:48] options to go with the school's [00:48:50] insurance. So, there'll be a cost [00:48:52] savings there. It's too early for me to [00:48:53] tell you how much. Um, we're looking at [00:48:55] other ways to bring in revenue. Um, as [00:48:58] you know, revenue, I mean, those are [00:49:00] fluid. Um, and we are looking at some [00:49:03] savings in all the insurance and [00:49:06] everything in that office. Um, because [00:49:09] there have been some serious [00:49:11] [Music] [00:49:12] um, uh, substantial errors in that [00:49:16] department um, that we're fixing now. So [00:49:19] next year we can have more accurate [00:49:21] numbers and um that won't hit our free [00:49:23] cash. So we are looking at um possible [00:49:27] income and revenue that we don't have [00:49:30] yet and fix that we don't have that we [00:49:32] don't have which right but also too [00:49:36] we're going to have um real actual [00:49:39] numbers in the treasur's office that are [00:49:41] done right because we've had errors [00:49:43] where they it's actually affecting our [00:49:44] free cash number. So um I would I would [00:49:48] in this conversation that I had with [00:49:51] the assessors if I understand this right [00:49:54] the projections for revenue are [00:49:58] conservative. Yeah. Yes. Very. So if [00:50:01] they are conservative in their opinion [00:50:03] uh they have far more experience on [00:50:05] handling of that number than anybody [00:50:07] else. I would say that would be an [00:50:10] assurance that that we've got we've got [00:50:13] a relatively [00:50:16] safe. Yeah. Well, yeah. Except that, you [00:50:19] know, if 62,000 appears as a cost next [00:50:22] year and it's not on the revenue [00:50:24] side, that's that's that's takes [00:50:27] probably all of your conservatism out. [00:50:31] Mr. Chair, I have one more thing I [00:50:33] forgot to mention. um on the warrant for [00:50:35] this annual town meeting, there's an [00:50:36] article to raise our meals tax. So, we [00:50:39] will also have that little bit of [00:50:40] revenue for um and then I will I want to [00:50:43] work with Mr. Tanker for not this year [00:50:46] but next year on the occupancy tax, [00:50:48] right? So, I want to work like glamping, [00:50:50] camping, tours, like Airbnb. Yeah. [00:50:54] Short-term rentals, stuff like that. We [00:50:56] also have an article on the annual town [00:50:57] meeting this year for tailings. So, any [00:51:00] I I hate to say leftover money. We can't [00:51:02] cash it. just kind of sits in a fund [00:51:05] that doesn't go to our operating. Call [00:51:06] that tailings. Tailings. Yeah. When [00:51:09] people have to check cash to check or [00:51:12] something. Yeah. It's it's a mining [00:51:14] term. [00:51:15] It's what's left over. Absolutely. So, [00:51:19] uh we have an article in the annual that [00:51:21] way after a year the town will be able [00:51:23] to collect that money. Um, so there's [00:51:26] other we're we're just we're trying to [00:51:29] be creative here and it's not other [00:51:30] towns do these things so it's not like [00:51:32] we're we're not like oh we're going to [00:51:34] be the first but it is different ways to [00:51:35] bring in my recollection in your revenue [00:51:38] projections was that for instance the [00:51:40] meal tax is not a big number even close [00:51:44] to being a big number increase that you [00:51:47] would expect from that would be hundreds [00:51:50] hundreds of dollars maybe $1,000 but is [00:51:52] it total $10,000 [00:51:54] It's $10,000 of the meals. Yeah, it's [00:51:58] we're doing right now. Now, the meals [00:52:00] tax, is that going to be a total of 1%. [00:52:03] Um, yes. Okay. We would like it to be [00:52:06] We'd like it to be um we have a little [00:52:09] issue. I'm going back and forth with [00:52:10] council on that [00:52:12] um with the Municipal Empowerment Act. [00:52:16] Um, so we would like it to be I'm 100 [00:52:19] I'm 99.9% sure it's going to be um the [00:52:22] the least it will be is 75 which it will [00:52:25] still be an increase over our.5 right [00:52:27] now currently. Right. But we can go up [00:52:29] to 1%. Yes. Just waiting for the [00:52:31] blessing. But right now our collections [00:52:34] are about $10,000. Okay. What at 3/4 of [00:52:39] It's at.5 right now. Yep. It definitely [00:52:43] an extra 10 which is something. [00:52:47] Y it surprises me how much we make that [00:52:54] it's all money coming into the town [00:52:56] anyway. Yeah. Mhm. And yeah, you'll have [00:53:00] a couple um other things coming before [00:53:01] the board in the next few months. Um [00:53:04] solar the cure surge is coming. So, [00:53:07] we're maybe with the greenery there [00:53:09] might be some changes, [00:53:11] but there'll be there's room for there's [00:53:13] a lot of assumptions being made for next [00:53:15] year that might make that conservative [00:53:17] number still conservative. Right. Right. [00:53:22] Maybe the So, what is our projected [00:53:24] total revenue? [00:53:26] Maybe our projected total revenue that I [00:53:28] that is unknown at this time. I need to [00:53:30] wait a few more months to kind of see [00:53:31] what you guys decide to do with certain [00:53:34] things like the vacant properties, like [00:53:37] uh going with a lease for the solar. So, [00:53:38] I can't sit here and say that for sure [00:53:40] because there's a lot of unknowns cuz [00:53:42] I'm not in your brains. Well, we we got [00:53:45] to base decisions on revenue and not [00:53:48] like what if scenarios. Do you have an [00:53:51] idea? I I missed the whole conversation. [00:53:53] Total income revenues next year. Wild [00:53:57] guess. Oh, I don't I don't. It's just [00:54:01] No, not really. There's too many [00:54:03] unknowns. Yeah. [00:54:05] Well, and a lot of it depends on you. [00:54:07] But, you know, that wouldn't be a bad [00:54:08] thing for the board if you're talking [00:54:10] about the things the last meeting about [00:54:12] focusing on things. Maybe on the revenue [00:54:14] side might be worth a few minutes of [00:54:17] every select board meeting to talk about [00:54:20] revenue opportunities. Right. Mr. like [00:54:23] like what she's talking about because [00:54:25] simply if you have in if you have one in [00:54:28] the budget I believe there's I want to [00:54:30] say $5,000 for the sale of one of those [00:54:33] buildings that we own if you sold it for [00:54:37] 10. There's here's an example and I put [00:54:40] in 30 for the three buildings as a very [00:54:42] conservative number. Right. Hopefully [00:54:44] we'll be able to unload one and get it [00:54:46] on the tax [00:54:47] roll forward. Y Mr. Chair Yes ma'am. I [00:54:52] um I have started a fiveyear um a [00:54:56] fiveyear projection. I'm just not [00:54:57] comfortable sharing it with the board [00:54:59] until I have more things um set in stone [00:55:02] on and I my focus was getting through [00:55:04] this town meeting just so you know. [00:55:05] Sorry. I got a wish list. Even like the [00:55:08] solar I don't it's 3 years old. Yeah. So [00:55:12] you don't have a projection on that next [00:55:14] year? Uh no we have a lease though and [00:55:16] also couple other solar proposals might [00:55:20] not even happen. Right. Right. It might [00:55:21] be danking those. Yep. Well, cure Sarge [00:55:24] came in and then everything stopped. [00:55:27] All right. Four or five years. We got [00:55:28] mobile material. [00:55:30] All right. So, what else? We go back to [00:55:34] So, town clerk, we have we discussed [00:55:38] Have we discussed everything else? Those [00:55:40] are all the Yep. The changes from Yes. [00:55:43] So, we're agreeing finally on numbers [00:55:46] here tonight. Yes. And the budget gets [00:55:49] voted on at town meeting [00:55:51] by the [00:55:53] res. So, right, but we vote to approve [00:55:56] these numbers. We have to agree on these [00:55:58] numbers, right? Correct. [00:56:01] Which will change even over the course [00:56:03] of the next week. I hope not. But my [00:56:06] goal is to again when I get into work [00:56:08] tomorrow is to finalize the motions for [00:56:11] the three of you, get all that over to [00:56:13] you and then hopefully start printing [00:56:15] the pledges as part of the warrant for [00:56:17] the town meeting on Saturday. I don't [00:56:18] want to wait any longer. [00:56:21] All right. Well, the numbers are usually [00:56:23] fluid at the last minute. So, right. [00:56:27] Cut that out. [00:56:29] Just make everything side. [00:56:33] Ask me a question here. Sure. Um, [00:56:36] so all the things you talked about and [00:56:39] all the changes happening, are we still [00:56:41] working towards the $20,000? I mean, is [00:56:43] this number these numbers real at all or [00:56:46] real? [00:56:48] We just changed that, but we still have [00:56:50] a a [00:56:52] $20,000 problem. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that [00:56:55] is a that is [00:56:56] $20,000 favorable. Favorable. Yes. Yeah. [00:57:00] That was over. No, it's [00:57:02] under. Got it. [00:57:06] So that gives leeway. We want that gap, [00:57:09] right? And this [00:57:13] is need a scorecard to keep up which [00:57:16] budget you know the finance the last [00:57:18] time we talked the last time you guys [00:57:20] voted. This a lot of work's been gone [00:57:22] into [00:57:23] this before tonight. So the stuff you [00:57:26] guys have been doing. So this is this [00:57:29] isn't relatively new compared to the one [00:57:31] that we looked at. It was new to the [00:57:35] select board at their last meeting, [00:57:37] which I wasn't. Actually, it might have [00:57:40] been. No, you don't think he was. He did [00:57:43] not. Go ahead. Sure. [00:57:46] Boom. If we apply these numbers and then [00:57:48] we put it to the balance sheet and [00:57:50] everything through the finance committee [00:57:51] through Chris's numbers and we're going [00:57:54] to have a negative 100,000 145,000 next [00:57:59] year. Just putting that out there. [00:58:04] I mean conservative. Yeah, let's let's [00:58:07] add those line items up right now [00:58:10] because that's an important it's an [00:58:12] important concern. That was the concern [00:58:14] of the last meeting and that's why we [00:58:17] because my understanding the town has [00:58:20] fixed revenue and it's 2 and a.5%. [00:58:23] Based off of the property taxes it's [00:58:25] fixed property tax but that's a fixed [00:58:28] revenue and so we got to kind of stay [00:58:31] within that revenue. We can't spend more [00:58:34] than that. And I know we have other [00:58:36] governance with mail stacks, equipment, [00:58:39] stuff like that. But that's that's the [00:58:41] big focus and that's what the finance [00:58:43] committee was trying to get through. And [00:58:45] that's why we made the cuts we made so [00:58:47] we could actually put money in [00:58:50] stabilization and start applying that [00:58:53] money to capital projects that would [00:58:55] save us money in the long run on [00:58:57] maintenance and these emergency calls [00:58:59] and all this. and get and take that [00:59:02] money and start using it to save money. [00:59:05] Mr. Chair, yes, ma'am. Um to Mr. Taker's [00:59:09] point about putting money into [00:59:10] stabilization, which [00:59:12] I0% agree with, we need to save. [00:59:15] However, if we don't start accurately [00:59:17] funding these budgets, we're not going [00:59:18] to have the free cash to ever fund [00:59:21] stabilization. So, I I mean, you've [00:59:24] heard me say this, I said this at the [00:59:25] last how many meetings. We have so many [00:59:27] overspent accounts that weren't funded [00:59:29] appropriately that I cannot sit here and [00:59:31] tell you what we're going to have for [00:59:33] free cash next year because we have so [00:59:35] many overspent accounts if we don't [00:59:36] properly fund the budget to operate the [00:59:39] town of Hardway. Okay. So, we haven't I [00:59:42] heard that. Okay. Thank you. [00:59:45] Would you [00:59:46] uh like to take us through those numbers [00:59:49] about the $100,000 next year? Well, it [00:59:52] it's the first question I think of that [00:59:54] and a big number is the pension. What? [00:59:57] This is the one that killed us this [00:59:58] year. Yeah. And it will be more and [01:00:01] it'll Well, it'll be more next year. We [01:00:03] need to be really cognizant of what that [01:00:06] increase is on the pay. It's going to be [01:00:08] roughly the same number as it is this [01:00:10] year. It's going to fluctuate slightly, [01:00:11] but it's not going to be significant. [01:00:13] This is the number that we should have [01:00:14] had all along that we weren't paying. [01:00:16] Unless we go out and hire two, three, [01:00:18] four more people, that number is going [01:00:20] to stay. For the first time, it's in [01:00:22] Yes. Correct. Correct. That's a budget [01:00:24] buster. Yes. I said 100 grand. [01:00:31] So that's where we end up in the hall [01:00:33] next [01:00:35] year because of the the insurance. If we [01:00:39] carry if we carry this budget forward [01:00:41] and there are no budget busters, nothing [01:00:45] that could you know that you for [01:00:47] instance in the previous discussion we [01:00:49] had there was [01:00:53] uh half that the uh town clerk for [01:00:57] instance was delayed until January and [01:01:00] the labor was delayed until January. [01:01:03] Those are really dangerous things that [01:01:05] you if you do you got to remember that [01:01:07] number doubles the following year [01:01:09] because you've pushed it out to make the [01:01:12] numbers balance but not pushed but [01:01:14] pushed it out to another fiscal year. So [01:01:18] you want to you want to look for those [01:01:20] in here that are that are [01:01:24] understated only simply because that's [01:01:26] the way we wanted to to make the [01:01:29] balanced budget. So, if there's any more [01:01:31] like that, we need to know of them. I [01:01:33] don't know. I don't know what they are. [01:01:37] I know the pension plan was the one that [01:01:39] sunk us. You know, if you look at the [01:01:41] school budget, we were very fortunate. [01:01:43] We had less students and a much smaller [01:01:46] uh increase uh on the on the uh school [01:01:50] budget. School budget right now is only [01:01:52] 46%. [01:01:56] Amazing. Yeah. That's Yeah. Yeah, that's [01:02:00] your window. Amazing. But maybe it it [01:02:03] may be amazing, but it may be [01:02:05] coincidental to the fact this school [01:02:07] population is going down very quickly [01:02:10] because we really that number gets [01:02:12] decided on by a per student allocation [01:02:15] per town, [01:02:17] right? And that can change that could be [01:02:19] a well a surprise disaster. [01:02:23] Similarly, so if you want to talk about [01:02:25] those surprises, you look at Pathfinder [01:02:27] School, three students last year, five [01:02:30] students this coming year. That was a [01:02:32] big hit, too. And we've sent kids to [01:02:35] Smith and Essex, right? So So again, [01:02:39] there are certain icebergs in in any [01:02:42] budget that you you can say would likely [01:02:46] be ice underwater, but there's some that [01:02:48] we don't know. We don't know how big [01:02:50] they are. Right. So, we want to minimize [01:02:52] those or at least really focus on those. [01:02:55] So, that's why I'm I'm kind of happy [01:02:57] that we get the highway uh department [01:03:00] squared away so that we don't have any [01:03:02] misunderstandings about that because if [01:03:05] you had my head spin in there for a [01:03:06] couple of minutes. So, I think we're [01:03:09] we're good. Yeah. The bottom line if the [01:03:11] bottom line doesn't change then that's [01:03:13] fine. I don't know how you manage that [01:03:16] budget but that's Marty's problem and [01:03:18] your problem. So I I'm going to say [01:03:20] that's what you agree on and there, you [01:03:23] know, except for snow and ice, which is [01:03:25] the iceberg that we deal with year in [01:03:27] and year out, which gets funded by free [01:03:29] cash. [01:03:31] 99% of the time though, I cover at least [01:03:36] half of my override or more. Right. [01:03:38] Right. Um I don't overspend. I have a [01:03:42] budget and I run. I know you do. I know. [01:03:46] There's no way to look at it though. [01:03:47] Don't come back on my health. [01:03:49] I can't do it. I don't think they did. [01:03:52] No, no, we were gone and uh it just [01:03:59] actually the money was in here all along [01:04:01] the [01:04:02] money was of what was going right. When [01:04:06] Lori called me, it was uh Yeah, just in [01:04:09] different places. We we could feel the [01:04:11] heat over the phone. [01:04:13] Yeah, probably. [01:04:15] No, I have a I have a phone that's [01:04:17] melted. Yeah, [01:04:20] only one. [01:04:22] Just one. Just one. Just only listen one [01:04:26] at a time. All right. [01:04:28] But no, thank you for Thank you. [01:04:33] getting back to the clerk. How do you [01:04:34] want to handle that? Do you want a [01:04:36] review committee? Do you want to [01:04:37] establish a town clerk review [01:04:40] committee? Mr. chair. I don't know if we [01:04:43] can get if we can really understand what [01:04:46] he does. Sure. But there's core [01:04:49] responsibilities. There's it's it's [01:04:52] spelled out in Mass General law and and [01:04:55] all that. Birth certificates, death [01:04:58] certificates, it's all there. Well, [01:05:00] right. [01:05:01] Right. And other things come up and but [01:05:05] that's the core role of the clerk. I [01:05:07] mean, spelled out. [01:05:12] My vote would be no. We're not voting, [01:05:14] sir. No, I I understand. I I do not [01:05:17] think we need to go to that extent for [01:05:20] the town clerk. I think the town [01:05:24] clerk's position is [01:05:28] is pretty well [01:05:31] defined. And I don't and I see it as [01:05:34] being a full-time position. They've been [01:05:37] doing full-time work all this time. I [01:05:39] don't see there being an issue. [01:05:42] He works part-time hours. Just his hours [01:05:45] are posted in there part-time, [01:05:48] right? And not fulltime. Isn't that an [01:05:52] elected position? Yes, it's elected [01:05:54] position. That's why we're asking res [01:05:56] vote on whether it should be time or [01:06:00] full time. Correct. And I I brought that [01:06:03] up. I don't think we make that decision. [01:06:05] He's an elected official and he works [01:06:08] Right. And that's the end of the story. [01:06:11] So the elected positions don't have a [01:06:15] set hour. There's nothing that I see [01:06:18] anybody's elected with 5 hours to get [01:06:21] the job done or 95 hours to get the job [01:06:23] done. He wants to get the jobs done. So [01:06:25] how do they do it? They just vote on his [01:06:26] salary. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And what how it [01:06:30] you know it used to be Paulie used to [01:06:33] work so many extra hours. Correct. that [01:06:35] really now he's going to be paid for [01:06:38] those powers that he you know should be [01:06:41] working. [01:06:43] My concern is it is an elected offic [01:06:47] like elected official position through [01:06:49] the bylaw and whether the bylaw says [01:06:52] full-time part-time it doesn't say [01:06:54] anything. The town has run in the past [01:06:58] on part-time pay. It hasn't. And so [01:07:02] going forward, it should be on an [01:07:04] article to change the bylaw to establish [01:07:08] fulltime and we and the people vote on [01:07:10] it. That's the proper procedure for [01:07:13] this. Not the select board, not [01:07:15] pressure, not anything. We have a [01:07:18] committee. We do the due diligence. We [01:07:20] review, see if it's even warranted, [01:07:22] what's the cost, what is the true cost [01:07:24] to the town so we can make responsible [01:07:27] decisions. [01:07:29] I'm not going to take his side, but I'm [01:07:32] going to explain that he gets the job [01:07:34] done. Whether it's in 30 hours or 25 [01:07:39] hours, I do the same thing. You know how [01:07:42] many hours I give this town a year? This [01:07:44] year I gave what, 320 hours, [01:07:49] right? You know, so I mean, we we [01:07:52] understand what you do, right? You do, [01:07:54] right? Maybe. So maybe he can't afford [01:07:57] to get the hours, you know. Um maybe [01:08:01] he's burnt out. [01:08:03] We don't know. So you don't know, right? [01:08:05] So you need to see what he does for [01:08:07] hours. That's why I [01:08:09] recommend the wood. But this whole thing [01:08:14] of you know, [01:08:17] I don't [01:08:18] know it it's called fiscal [01:08:21] responsibility. We just can't throw it [01:08:24] at the taxpayers because we done a great [01:08:27] job. Well, that's what where it's going [01:08:29] to go. It's going to go back to the [01:08:31] taxpayers. Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. Um, so [01:08:35] whatever the board decides to do [01:08:37] tonight, it is always it can still [01:08:39] always come up on the floor at town [01:08:40] meeting. You know, you've seen these [01:08:42] things happen before. So, the board just [01:08:44] do what you guys think is right. Um, but [01:08:46] at the end of the day, it is up to the [01:08:48] taxpayers and they will decide on the [01:08:50] town meeting floor. But it's not on the [01:08:52] articles. It doesn't need to be. Yes, it [01:08:54] does. It doesn't. It does. Okay. I [01:08:56] disagree. Any anybody can take one of [01:08:59] the line items from the budget and amend [01:09:03] it. [01:09:04] That's the right of the voter to be able [01:09:07] to do that and and we do a line item [01:09:10] budget so they could pick out Jangle in [01:09:13] this possessor's salary and they could [01:09:16] adjust that to zero or whatever they [01:09:19] would like to do it. 400,000. But Jen [01:09:22] Glenda's salary is not in a bylaw. And [01:09:25] you're even though you're in a bylaw, [01:09:27] right? But the town clerk is it's [01:09:30] article 20 of the town bylaws. And what [01:09:33] does that bylaw say? Well, I don't know [01:09:35] if it's current, outdated, or anything. [01:09:38] So, it just says the town clerk and his [01:09:41] position and what he's supposed to do. [01:09:42] And it doesn't say part-time. It doesn't [01:09:44] say full time. That's right. That's what [01:09:46] but it's supposed to to amend the bylaw. [01:09:50] It's supposed to be on the articles and [01:09:52] it's not on the articles. That's all I [01:09:54] can tell you. [01:09:56] Yeah. So, and I recommend I recommend we [01:10:00] do a review committee because other [01:10:02] towns with population the clerk's role [01:10:05] is based on population. Barry has a [01:10:08] full-time clerk. Their population is [01:10:10] 5,500. [01:10:11] Every other town you look at where [01:10:14] they're 2,800, 1,000, 1,500, their town [01:10:17] clerk is part-time. Our town clerk has [01:10:19] been part-time. Our population hasn't [01:10:22] gone to 5,000. Hasn't even come near [01:10:24] that number. But am I saying no, I don't [01:10:28] want it to go full-time. I'm just saying [01:10:30] we should analyze the position and make [01:10:32] a informed decision. And in order to do [01:10:36] that, we put it off till November or we [01:10:39] have an answer by September, right? And [01:10:41] we and if it comes back and says, "Hey, [01:10:45] we want to do X, Y, and Z." Yes, it [01:10:47] warrants it. We amend the bylaw in the [01:10:50] article. We put the article and we put [01:10:51] it before the voters. [01:10:55] Can I Can I ask one question? Sure. I [01:10:57] want to make sure since we can't render [01:10:59] an opinion on the on [01:11:02] $35,000. Should you decide to do that [01:11:06] there's then you're doing exact you got [01:11:09] to have something in the budget in case [01:11:11] you decide from that [01:11:14] committee that you're going to go ahead [01:11:16] with that. You need a number in there, [01:11:18] right? So, so just for the purposes of [01:11:20] the budget, a number will probably be [01:11:23] there whether you say [01:11:25] yes or whether you say no because it's [01:11:27] got to have a number there. We can keep [01:11:29] the line item and not spend it. And not [01:11:32] spend it. [01:11:35] [Music] [01:11:38] That I can agree to. [01:11:41] Well, what about a committee of the [01:11:43] committee? Yeah, I need a motion. I'll [01:11:46] give you a motion. No. All you already [01:11:48] gave me a motion. I mean, you read that, [01:11:51] right? I'd like to see what Jeff was [01:11:52] thinking. Okay. [01:11:58] You see, see, we just had we just had [01:12:00] agreement. Yeah, we just had agreement. [01:12:03] I'm trying to I'm I'm trying to my [01:12:07] I I am not sure what we're [01:12:13] changing with this committee. We're to I [01:12:16] I know we're analyzing the position [01:12:19] whether the it you can do it full time, [01:12:22] whether it should be full-time, whether [01:12:24] the town can a full afford a full-time [01:12:27] position. Mhm. [01:12:30] But we're changing a bylaw and the bylaw [01:12:34] is just an elected position, right? [01:12:39] And that can be whatever it happens to [01:12:42] be. [01:12:44] If the present town clerk starts putting [01:12:47] in 40, 50 hours a [01:12:51] week, he he's entitled to do that. [01:12:57] Um, and I would feel it would behoove us [01:13:01] to pay him that sort of thing, that sort [01:13:04] of uh uh money for a full-time decision [01:13:07] that and and I don't [01:13:11] So what would this committee be looking [01:13:14] for? [01:13:15] The committee, if I may answer, Mr. [01:13:18] Chair, sure. [01:13:19] Um, this committee would determine the [01:13:22] role whether it warrants full-time or [01:13:25] not just based on what actual things are [01:13:28] being done, what is needed, what is the [01:13:30] job, what is the job. Okay. Um, and it's [01:13:34] basically going to look up other towns [01:13:36] with similar populations. Do they have a [01:13:38] full-time clerk or do they have a [01:13:40] part-time clerk? Yes or no? And then the [01:13:43] salary. What are the benefit costs? What [01:13:45] are the vacation, the holiday, the sick [01:13:47] day, the pension? All that is not in [01:13:50] $35,000. That's just going for 33. We're [01:13:53] adding 33. So, we're at 66. But what is [01:13:55] the other cost to those benefits? What [01:13:59] What does he get? Does he get four weeks [01:14:00] vacation? Does he get three? What is it? [01:14:03] Okay. So, this committee is going to [01:14:04] analyze all that and get back to us and [01:14:07] let us know and give us all this [01:14:10] information. [01:14:12] Again, that would make sense if this was [01:14:14] an perfect sense if the if it was an [01:14:16] appointed position. Well, but it's not. [01:14:18] I will address the bylaw part of it. [01:14:20] Amending the bylaw. Okay. One of the [01:14:23] things we would do is Ryan's elected. [01:14:27] Okay. We would want it to be an [01:14:29] appointed position going forward. No. [01:14:32] after. [01:14:34] I mean, it would be Ryan's job, but I'm [01:14:36] saying going forward, let's say Ryan [01:14:38] down the road, Ryan quits or he wants to [01:14:40] leave or he goes to greener pastures [01:14:42] with more money. Okay? Or very next [01:14:46] year, somebody could run against him and [01:14:47] he gets unelected. That's right. That's [01:14:51] the trick, right? So, I recommend we [01:14:54] make this committee would also review [01:14:56] that and say, should it be appointed [01:14:59] position under the select board? I think [01:15:02] we're the committee that has to decide [01:15:04] this, right? [01:15:06] And um I can't agree with going for an [01:15:10] appointed [01:15:12] Okay. structure. So, well, I think the [01:15:16] rest of the stuff. Well, I think I I'm [01:15:18] looking for a motion. Let's make a [01:15:21] motion to decide this. I'll make a [01:15:24] motion if that's [01:15:25] acceptable. Make your All right. I'll [01:15:28] make a motion. I move to establish a [01:15:31] temporary advisory committee consisting [01:15:33] of five [01:15:34] members to study and evaluate the scope, [01:15:37] responsibility and compensation of the [01:15:39] town clerk position. The committee shall [01:15:42] include and I said one member of the [01:15:44] select board, one member of the finance [01:15:46] committee and three members of the [01:15:48] public. If you want to change that, we [01:15:50] can change that. The purpose of this [01:15:52] committee shall be to determine whether [01:15:55] the town clerk rolled Warren's full [01:15:57] time. Assess the associated costs [01:16:00] including salary, benefits, vacation [01:16:03] time, sick time, all that stuff. What [01:16:05] does he get? Review the actual duties, [01:16:08] workloads of the position. Compare this [01:16:11] with similarsized towns. Hardwick has a [01:16:13] population approximately 2,800 where the [01:16:16] role is typically have been part-time. [01:16:19] Report m create a report report back to [01:16:22] the select board a written report [01:16:24] recommendation by no later than [01:16:25] September 30th for potential action for [01:16:28] fall town meeting. [01:16:30] Mr. Chairman, no. Please stop. [01:16:38] I I don't think I can second that. [01:16:46] Well, okay. Motion dies from lack of a [01:16:49] second. [01:16:52] Well, Mr. Chair, you could second it if [01:16:54] you so wanted to. I could if Yeah. Just [01:16:57] bringing that reminding you. Thank you. [01:16:59] Okay, no problem. [01:17:03] No, I think [01:17:05] uh I think we go on with [01:17:08] uh with what's in front of us [01:17:11] instead and follow [01:17:14] the numbers that are on the page. [01:17:19] I could get a motion to do that. Um, [01:17:22] I'll uh move that now [01:17:25] we're accepting the budget [01:17:29] as we've amended it [01:17:32] tonight to submit to town meeting on uh [01:17:37] Saturday. I'll make that motion. [01:17:41] Okay, I'll second it. [01:17:45] discussion. [01:17:47] So what is our negative impact going [01:17:50] forward? How much are we going to be out [01:17:52] of budget? Is it 160, 170? How much? [01:17:56] What is that number in the future? Next [01:18:00] year. Next year. Next year. [01:18:03] We're trying to write the ship here. And [01:18:06] this isn't writing the ship. This is [01:18:08] hitting the iceberg. So I just want to [01:18:11] know what that number [01:18:13] is. No, there's no telling. No, there is [01:18:16] telling. [01:18:19] We've been presented a budget. [01:18:22] What's wrong with it? [01:18:26] Help me understand that. [01:18:30] What's wrong with the budget? [01:18:33] Is reportedly at the bottom of my [01:18:36] year. $20,000 surplus. [01:18:42] Mhm. Now, I got a little nervous when I [01:18:46] saw the highway numbers moving all over [01:18:48] the place. I see my only [01:18:51] pre that because it's only I thought [01:18:54] this was clean. It's not. Okay. So, what [01:18:58] do you know of though? Do you have some [01:19:01] Well, I'm I'm basing it off of Chris [01:19:03] Chris Ross's financial numbers where he [01:19:05] says, "Hey, we don't do this, we don't [01:19:07] do that. We cut out $98,000 at our last [01:19:10] meeting and now we're putting that [01:19:12] 98,000 plus back into it and and then [01:19:15] even on those numbers we were at [01:19:18] -45,000 if I'm not mistaken. Well, so [01:19:21] when is one of them we know that I'm [01:19:24] just concerned we add the 98 back into [01:19:27] the budget which we have. Okay. So next [01:19:30] year we're looking at we had a negative [01:19:32] $45,000 at the end of next year with the [01:19:34] the $98,000 cut taken out. So next year [01:19:39] we're looking at the 98,000 plus the [01:19:41] 45,000. What's that? 136 140 [01:19:45] something,000 negative. It's a big [01:19:48] number for this town. Mr. Chair. Yes, [01:19:50] ma'am. Um that's not accurate. Um and I [01:19:54] don't know where Mr. Cor Ross got some [01:19:55] of his numbers. Like I said, we looked [01:19:57] at the debt and that is not well numbers [01:20:01] have changed in the last couple of weeks [01:20:03] dealing with this document here. [01:20:07] That's just my concern, sir. That's it. [01:20:09] I mean, numbers numbers, they add up. [01:20:12] They don't add up. It's numbers don't [01:20:14] lie. It's like a universal language. [01:20:17] This is the best budget that the that [01:20:19] you've seen recent years that's gotten [01:20:22] us under two and a half in a comfortable [01:20:24] manner. I'm going to call for a vote. [01:20:28] Okay. All in favor? I I [01:20:32] oppose. No, I said I I'll agree, but I [01:20:35] don't agree. I'll go no. I'll go no for [01:20:38] the record. [01:20:41] We can't we can't take a vote cuz we [01:20:43] don't have a forum. So, uh, what we [01:20:47] need is this bulletproof numbers and [01:20:51] then I'll review it with Chris and then [01:20:54] we'll take it up [01:20:57] at the um at the annual meeting. We'll [01:21:01] have a we'll have to have [01:21:02] a we'll have to post a meeting. Well, we [01:21:05] were planning on posting meeting, right? [01:21:07] We're at 8:00. So, we'll take it. One [01:21:11] other thing, Mr. [01:21:14] Sure. Um, the town copier over No, the [01:21:18] town copier, it's costing us $2,800 a [01:21:20] month. Okay. Mhm. I'd like to make a [01:21:22] motion to have that removed by June [01:21:24] 30th. [01:21:26] Don't have the money until July 1st. And [01:21:28] we have it in capital. You can buy it [01:21:30] now. I can't use capital. We have [01:21:32] capital. Can we use capital for that? [01:21:35] Can we use capital for a new copier? No. [01:21:39] You going to own it? It's an asset. [01:21:41] Yeah. [01:21:43] Well, it's an asset. You can you can own [01:21:45] it an asset. Mr. Chair, you have to tell [01:21:48] me where you're going to take the money [01:21:50] out. But there's Well, that's there's [01:21:51] capital stabilization that requires a [01:21:53] town meeting vote to access. So either [01:21:56] way, I can't access it until July 1st. [01:21:58] So no matter what, they still have to [01:22:00] buy it July 1st. [01:22:02] And you were talking about having [01:22:04] another special sometime within the next [01:22:06] month [01:22:08] at on June 30th. Yeah. Again, I wouldn't [01:22:11] have a copier until July 1st. But if it [01:22:14] it's out of capital stabilization, that [01:22:16] vote wouldn't even if we had a special, [01:22:18] I can't access it until July 1st. Well, [01:22:20] how about we do this? We take it out of [01:22:22] the IT. Okay. We buy the copier. We're [01:22:25] going to pass this budget. We have a [01:22:27] budget of 30 plus,000 in IT. We use the [01:22:31] $8,000 that it's going to cost us. [01:22:33] That's the plan. Okay. Good. And but we [01:22:36] buy it now. We don't wait till July 1st [01:22:38] to start removing this. We start saving [01:22:41] now because [01:22:44] you hate that. Well, put it this way, [01:22:46] sir. By the time we actually get rid of [01:22:48] it, we could have bought two copters or [01:22:51] three copters. So, we blow our budget [01:22:53] right there in it by not removing it. I [01:22:56] can't until July 1st. This is the FY26 [01:22:58] budget which starts July 1st. I'm a [01:23:00] negative in it in this current fiscal [01:23:01] year. I cannot do anything until July [01:23:03] 1st. We have no money. You can get rid [01:23:06] of the copy and then not have one. I [01:23:08] don't have one though. That's the [01:23:09] problem. I It has to be a month from [01:23:12] now. It just has to be like it has to [01:23:14] 800. That's three almost $3,000. Okay. [01:23:18] We brought this up in March. So add it [01:23:20] up in [01:23:21] March. You'll buy some printers. It's a [01:23:24] $400 printer. A piece of cake. You spend [01:23:26] 1 month's worth of payment. You can [01:23:28] experiment. Yes, sir. With all due [01:23:31] respect, Bill, I think I think our hands [01:23:34] are kind of tight. I I I agree with you. [01:23:37] Government doesn't have to be [01:23:38] inefficient. We can be efficient. And [01:23:41] sitting around paying 2,800 a month is a [01:23:45] waste of money on a copier. I agree. [01:23:49] Okay, good. Let's get rid of it. But we [01:23:52] have to [01:23:53] wait. From what I'm saying, it we have [01:23:56] to [01:23:57] wait exactly how many months? Less than [01:24:01] a month. July 1st. July 1st. [01:24:08] So why aren't the proposals and quotes [01:24:10] going out now for replacement? Cuz I [01:24:12] don't need to do that. If if I'm get on [01:24:15] the state bid list, I have to get a [01:24:17] motion to u get this started and get [01:24:20] those quotes. And it is started. Do we [01:24:22] have a list of quotes? And Make a motion [01:24:26] request for proposal for a printer. I [01:24:28] don't need to do that if it's under [01:24:29] $10,000. Are you turning [01:24:33] off 3,000? So, it's 11,000. Stop. [01:24:37] Budgeted. [01:24:38] Let's try to get the numbers together [01:24:42] and make a plan and go over it at our [01:24:44] next selection meeting Monday. Be ready [01:24:47] to order something two weeks later. I [01:24:49] can't do that. [01:24:52] What? I can't have anything ready for [01:24:54] Monday. My my entire week is getting [01:24:55] ready for Saturday. I'm not going to [01:24:57] have it ready for Monday. Can [01:24:59] you a request for proposal? No, we don't [01:25:02] need a request for proposal. We just [01:25:04] need a list specifications. I already [01:25:06] have it. I've sent it to her email. All [01:25:09] right. Let's go over it at the next [01:25:10] meeting. All right. No problem. Okay. [01:25:13] All right. All right. Anybody else? [01:25:17] Nope. Is it How about you? Any open [01:25:20] forum questions? cuz we didn't have that [01:25:22] at the beginning. The uh Well, we [01:25:24] weren't planning we didn't post [01:25:25] anything. I might um I'll wait till the [01:25:28] meeting adjournment and I I would just [01:25:29] like to [01:25:31] ask you guys [01:25:33] to keep okay put some pressure on the [01:25:36] lawyers to keep this moving on the page [01:25:39] building. It seems like I should our [01:25:42] lawyer talk to your lawyer, but that [01:25:44] costs money and we don't want to do [01:25:45] that. Should we How do we get this [01:25:47] facilitated? I sent a follow-up email to [01:25:49] the board a few days ago, a week ago. [01:25:53] Yes, Jen. Thank you. Have a good night. [01:25:55] Good night, Jen. [01:25:58] I make a motion to adjourn. Second. All [01:26:01] in favor? All right. Hi.